9 ms·

One reason why humans are special and unique: We masturbate. A lot

146 points by ca98am79 16y ago

ErrantX 16y ago
This is interesting; but I can't help feeling that limiting comparison mostly to primates has potential to mislead his conclusion. I started from Wikipedia [1] and worked outward with the reference material and the implication is that masturbation to completion is actually quite common. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour#Autoeroticism_.28masturbation.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour#Autoero...
adbge 16y ago
Note that the author doesn't claim that humans are the only species who masturbates, but rather that humans masturbate the most often. The author goes on to speculate that this is because humans have the ability to fantasize, though I think the claims that humans masturbate more than any other animal and that chimps are unable to fantasize dubious. If you found this article interesting (or amusing, as it very well may be), you may want to check out the Wikipedia page on the Bonobo ape, one of the few species that have been observed to participate in oral sex. Primatologist Frans de Waal described the Bonobo as "the erotic champions of the world."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo] Another fun fact: homosexual behavior has been well documented in both the Bonobo and koalas, an interesting counterpoint to fundamentalists claims that homosexuality isn't natural. :) [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/strewth-australia-rocked-by-lesbian-koala-revelation-437806.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/strewth-...] Further reading: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour] And a graphic video of a monkey masturbating with a frog (because, after all, this is the internet): [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwegzhXAqaQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwegzhXAqaQ]
- roc 16y ago
  > "I think the claims that humans masturbate more than any other animal and that chimps are unable to fantasize dubious" In addition to skepticism due other masturbating animals, there's the question of human child masturbation. Anyone who's had children can vouch that they're rubbing the parts that feel good well before they're expressing complex ideas, let alone thinking sexually. And, FWIW, I believe homosexuality has been well documented in every sexual species that's been well documented.
- username3 16y ago
  > Another fun fact: homosexual behavior has been well documented in both the Bonobo and koalas, an interesting counterpoint to fundamentalists claims that homosexuality isn't natural. :) You didn't mention some things from your link like, The furry, eucalyptus-eating creatures appear to develop this tendency for same-sex liaisons when they are in captivity. In the wild, they remain heterosexual. What's natural about captivity?
  - sliverstorm 16y ago
    Perhaps it's not wildly unnatural factors but rather plain old boredom?
  - philwelch 16y ago
    I hasten to point out that humans, in captivity, tend to engage in more homosexual behavior as well.
- btilly 16y ago
  That isn't actually what the author claims. Lots of other animals masturbate, and the author admits that monkeys are certainly prone to it. What he claims makes humans unusual is the we masturbate to orgasm. Incidentally you chose fairly poor examples for animal homosexuality. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals for a list of other examples you could use. For instance I prefer to cite giraffes (9 out of 10 sexual encounters are homosexual) and black swans (1/4 preferentially homosexual).
  - kragen 16y ago
    I wonder what fraction of human sexual encounters are homosexual? There's the old studies the fundamentalist Christians like to trot out where 28% of the gay interviewees reported more than a thousand lifetime sexual partners, while I suspect the median number of lifetime sexual partners across the adult US population is somewhere around 10. So it wouldn't be terribly surprising if the majority of human sexual encounters were between members of the same (male) sex.
    - bkrausz 16y ago
      In the modern West, major studies indicate a prevalence of homosexuality of 2% to 13% of the population[1]. On any given day 4% of the population has sex[2]. That means that in order for same-gender sex to outnumber straight sex, every day between a third and all of the homosexual population would need to have sex[3]. Somehow I doubt this is the case. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality [2] http://geography.about.com/od/culturalgeography/a/geographyofsex.htm http://geography.about.com/od/culturalgeography/a/geographyo... [3] I know I'm completely ignoring people who aren't reportedly homosexual having same-gender sex, but I assume the studies Wikipedia cites account for people who are in-between to some extent, and that the one-off same-gender experiences are negligible compared to the overall population. It's not perfect math!
      - kragen 16y ago
        The thing is, these distributions are very skewed. A non-gender-or-orientation-specific given person can go for two weeks without having sex and then have sex ten or twenty times in a weekend-long speed-fueled orgy (or so the stories go), and that still averages out to 0.7 to 1.4 times a day. So it's kind of a sticky subject. It can be really hard to get your arms around all the issues. What's the relative frequency of Viagra and amphetamine usage among gay and straight people? Of group sex? How about among the most sexually active 20% of each group? Nobody has a fucking clue. However, I have a strong suspicion that getting laid a couple of times a day isn't that hard if you're a gay man in a major world city, especially in the age if Grindr and iTrick.
- MartinCron 16y ago
  In the video, that's an ape with a frog. Not a monkey. Show some respect :)
- Groxx 16y ago
  one of the few species that have been observed to participate in oral sex. There's also the notorious example of bats.
- drlisp 16y ago
  My hypothesis: humans who visit Hacker News masturbate even more often.
erlanger 16y ago
> Males report having sexual fantasies earlier in development (average age of onset 11.5 years) I find that figure to be surprisingly high. My first dream that was definitely sexual was when I was 7 going on 8, in the second grade. > today’s Internet pornography scene, where zero is left to the imagination. I disagree. The primary psychological goal of porno seems to be for the viewer to imagine one of the actors as themselves, and/or the other actor(s) as those the viewer knows or sees. The amount of clothing, the level of visual detail, and the nature of the sexual acts performed are merely to cater to the viewer's tastes.
- WesleyJohnson 16y ago
  A bit off-topic, but do you have clear recolection of other dreams at that age (or younger) or does this one just stand out because of its nature? I have a terrible long term memory and I can hardly recall everyday things from that long ago, much less one specific dream.
  - erlanger 16y ago
    I recall all of my more eventful dreams from that age (and younger, but only back to 5 or 6), and that particular dream was definitely a welcomed shock to my young mind at the time.
- ErrantX 16y ago
  May I ask; how old are you now? (your past recall seems pretty damn good if you can remember back so far) As it stands I'd say 7/8 seems young; well, for men (it might be reasonable for women). My work is in computer forensics and we often have children's computers to examine. In my limited observation sexual interest develops around 10/11 in boys and 8/9 in girls (this is based on searches for porn or sexy pics so in no way conclusive). > The primary psychological goal of porno seems to be for the viewer to imagine one of the actors as themselves, and/or the other actor(s) as those the viewer knows or sees. As you can imagine (given the above job) we also see a lot of porn. And I would say you are right. POV pornography is extremely popular - probably the most common type of porn people watch.
gdl 16y ago
> Is the next generation going to be so intellectually lazy in their sexual fantasies [because of Internet porn] that their creativity in other domains is also affected? Wow. I know each generation ends up spreading FUD about the habits of the younger ones, but I never expected to be criticized for not masturbating creatively enough. Puritanism sure ain't what it used to be.
- zefhous 16y ago
  I think it's quite an astute point. Easy access to porn desensitizes us sexually, and we no longer have to depend on our imaginations. It's not necessarily about FUD or a generational issue, it's something worth thinking about. I think these are important questions to consider: How does easy access to pornography affect the development of children? What are the effects of pornography and masturbation in my life? How does porn affect my marriage? How does masturbation affect my marriage?
  - sev 16y ago
    The latter 3 are not too interesting IMO, because porn and masturbation have been around for centuries, and whatever effects they've had have become part of society. The first one might be an interesting one to consider. Of course this is assuming children get hold of the pornography at an earlier age than they should and continuously have easy access to it. And in my opinion, the only thing that occurs is that children will get desensitized to the typical types of sex early on, and when they reach the age where they will be participating, they will need or want more interesting, atypical, types of sex to fully enjoy themselves.
    - amirmc 16y ago
      ...whatever effects they've had have become part of society Your comment seems to imply that the effects are complete. I'd disagree with that. I'd say access to pornography has changed dramatically in recent years. Anyone with an internet connection can find porn in relative anonymity and I don't think we've seen the full effects of it yet. children will get desensitized to the typical types of sex early on As children become more sexually aware, they'll probably turn to the 'net to learn more. I suspect their expectations of what is 'normal' will be set by what they find there. I don't think it's just desensitisation that will take place.
jroes 16y ago
Funny title, interesting article. Is this really HN material though?
- ErrantX 16y ago
  I know this is a somewhat controversial topic (HN notability) but I think this particular article falls easily within intellectually stimulating (no pun intended :)). Also it is high brow enough not to count as gutter reading (in my mind anyway).
- sramov 16y ago
  Life hacking.
  - ciupicri 16y ago
    Speaking of life, hacking together with someone of the opposite sex would be more productive than by yourself.
    - theBobMcCormick 16y ago
      You can't always have filet mignon. Sometime you just gonna make do with a hamburger. :-)
    - eru 16y ago
      If you want to re-produce, that is.
- theBobMcCormick 16y ago
  Why? Is evolutionary psychology not HN material? If it had been an almost identical article but about a topic other than masturbation (grooming, social rituals, etc), would that have made it more HN worthy? Why or why not?
sliverstorm 16y ago
What can we say- we have fingers, and more importantly thumbs, and that makes it a hellofalot easier. Thus we are head (and shoulders) ahead of most of the animal kingdom.
mikecane 16y ago
>>>male university students were found to masturbate to ejaculation about every 72 hours If that stat alone had been widespread a few decades ago, it would have prevented so much angst for so many.
- drivebyacct 16y ago
  Really 72 whole hours? Must be students with roommates.
- jules 16y ago
  This number seems very high to me. Perhaps we could do a poll?
Estragon 16y ago
I took his challenge, and succeeded, so I don't buy the theory that we're special because of our capacity for fantasy. (I did it for SCIENCE!)
msg 16y ago
Maybe this is dumb, but I opened this at work and it was a little more graphic and NSFW than I expected.
- mortenjorck 16y ago
  "Oh, hey, do you have a second to take a look at this over here?" "I'll be there in, uh, a minute."
- dkarl 16y ago
  Ditto. The link title should have indicated that this was marginally NSFW. I guess this comes up too rarely on HN for there to be any policy or convention about it.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  you clicked on a link to a story about masturbation and were surprised to find it NSFW?!
- jules 16y ago
  Maybe I'm missing something. I'm seeing a dude without a shirt. Is this NSFW? The average pop music clip is 100x more sexual.
elptacek 16y ago
One reason why not to read HN over lunch.
ciupicri 16y ago
> a veritable online smorgasbord of real people doing things our grandparents couldn’t have dreamt up even in their wettest of dreams Maybe our grandparents didn't even dream about it, but the ancient Greeks and Romans sure did a lot of those things.
crazydiamond 16y ago
From personal experience, I'd agree that lust requires the ability to string together thoughts. Having meditated for many years -- remaining in the present moment free of thought, ignoring any thought that comes, letting thoughts fall off as they arise -- lust / arousal are impossible (unless perhaps if one is married and does not need the mind for arousal). Are animals able to carry on a thought process, not sure? Dogs certainly seem to be more in the present than humans. That article links to another interesting one on asexuals.

146 points by ca98am79 16y ago

This is interesting; but I can't help feeling that limiting comparison mostly to primates has potential to mislead his conclusion. I started from Wikipedia [1] and worked outward with the reference material and the implication is that masturbation to completion is actually quite common. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour#Autoeroticism_.28masturbation.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour#Autoero...

adbge 16y ago

Note that the author doesn't claim that humans are the only species who masturbates, but rather that humans masturbate the most often. The author goes on to speculate that this is because humans have the ability to fantasize, though I think the claims that humans masturbate more than any other animal and that chimps are unable to fantasize dubious. If you found this article interesting (or amusing, as it very well may be), you may want to check out the Wikipedia page on the Bonobo ape, one of the few species that have been observed to participate in oral sex. Primatologist Frans de Waal described the Bonobo as "the erotic champions of the world."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo] Another fun fact: homosexual behavior has been well documented in both the Bonobo and koalas, an interesting counterpoint to fundamentalists claims that homosexuality isn't natural. :) [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/strewth-australia-rocked-by-lesbian-koala-revelation-437806.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/strewth-...] Further reading: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour] And a graphic video of a monkey masturbating with a frog (because, after all, this is the internet): [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwegzhXAqaQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwegzhXAqaQ]

roc 16y ago
> "I think the claims that humans masturbate more than any other animal and that chimps are unable to fantasize dubious" In addition to skepticism due other masturbating animals, there's the question of human child masturbation. Anyone who's had children can vouch that they're rubbing the parts that feel good well before they're expressing complex ideas, let alone thinking sexually. And, FWIW, I believe homosexuality has been well documented in every sexual species that's been well documented.
username3 16y ago
> Another fun fact: homosexual behavior has been well documented in both the Bonobo and koalas, an interesting counterpoint to fundamentalists claims that homosexuality isn't natural. :) You didn't mention some things from your link like, The furry, eucalyptus-eating creatures appear to develop this tendency for same-sex liaisons when they are in captivity. In the wild, they remain heterosexual. What's natural about captivity?
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  Perhaps it's not wildly unnatural factors but rather plain old boredom?
- philwelch 16y ago
  I hasten to point out that humans, in captivity, tend to engage in more homosexual behavior as well.
btilly 16y ago
That isn't actually what the author claims. Lots of other animals masturbate, and the author admits that monkeys are certainly prone to it. What he claims makes humans unusual is the we masturbate to orgasm. Incidentally you chose fairly poor examples for animal homosexuality. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals for a list of other examples you could use. For instance I prefer to cite giraffes (9 out of 10 sexual encounters are homosexual) and black swans (1/4 preferentially homosexual).
- kragen 16y ago
  I wonder what fraction of human sexual encounters are homosexual? There's the old studies the fundamentalist Christians like to trot out where 28% of the gay interviewees reported more than a thousand lifetime sexual partners, while I suspect the median number of lifetime sexual partners across the adult US population is somewhere around 10. So it wouldn't be terribly surprising if the majority of human sexual encounters were between members of the same (male) sex.
  - bkrausz 16y ago
    In the modern West, major studies indicate a prevalence of homosexuality of 2% to 13% of the population[1]. On any given day 4% of the population has sex[2]. That means that in order for same-gender sex to outnumber straight sex, every day between a third and all of the homosexual population would need to have sex[3]. Somehow I doubt this is the case. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality [2] http://geography.about.com/od/culturalgeography/a/geographyofsex.htm http://geography.about.com/od/culturalgeography/a/geographyo... [3] I know I'm completely ignoring people who aren't reportedly homosexual having same-gender sex, but I assume the studies Wikipedia cites account for people who are in-between to some extent, and that the one-off same-gender experiences are negligible compared to the overall population. It's not perfect math!
    - kragen 16y ago
      The thing is, these distributions are very skewed. A non-gender-or-orientation-specific given person can go for two weeks without having sex and then have sex ten or twenty times in a weekend-long speed-fueled orgy (or so the stories go), and that still averages out to 0.7 to 1.4 times a day. So it's kind of a sticky subject. It can be really hard to get your arms around all the issues. What's the relative frequency of Viagra and amphetamine usage among gay and straight people? Of group sex? How about among the most sexually active 20% of each group? Nobody has a fucking clue. However, I have a strong suspicion that getting laid a couple of times a day isn't that hard if you're a gay man in a major world city, especially in the age if Grindr and iTrick.
MartinCron 16y ago
In the video, that's an ape with a frog. Not a monkey. Show some respect :)
Groxx 16y ago
one of the few species that have been observed to participate in oral sex. There's also the notorious example of bats.
drlisp 16y ago
My hypothesis: humans who visit Hacker News masturbate even more often.

erlanger 16y ago

> Males report having sexual fantasies earlier in development (average age of onset 11.5 years) I find that figure to be surprisingly high. My first dream that was definitely sexual was when I was 7 going on 8, in the second grade. > today’s Internet pornography scene, where zero is left to the imagination. I disagree. The primary psychological goal of porno seems to be for the viewer to imagine one of the actors as themselves, and/or the other actor(s) as those the viewer knows or sees. The amount of clothing, the level of visual detail, and the nature of the sexual acts performed are merely to cater to the viewer's tastes.

WesleyJohnson 16y ago
A bit off-topic, but do you have clear recolection of other dreams at that age (or younger) or does this one just stand out because of its nature? I have a terrible long term memory and I can hardly recall everyday things from that long ago, much less one specific dream.
- erlanger 16y ago
  I recall all of my more eventful dreams from that age (and younger, but only back to 5 or 6), and that particular dream was definitely a welcomed shock to my young mind at the time.
ErrantX 16y ago
May I ask; how old are you now? (your past recall seems pretty damn good if you can remember back so far) As it stands I'd say 7/8 seems young; well, for men (it might be reasonable for women). My work is in computer forensics and we often have children's computers to examine. In my limited observation sexual interest develops around 10/11 in boys and 8/9 in girls (this is based on searches for porn or sexy pics so in no way conclusive). > The primary psychological goal of porno seems to be for the viewer to imagine one of the actors as themselves, and/or the other actor(s) as those the viewer knows or sees. As you can imagine (given the above job) we also see a lot of porn. And I would say you are right. POV pornography is extremely popular - probably the most common type of porn people watch.

gdl 16y ago

> Is the next generation going to be so intellectually lazy in their sexual fantasies [because of Internet porn] that their creativity in other domains is also affected? Wow. I know each generation ends up spreading FUD about the habits of the younger ones, but I never expected to be criticized for not masturbating creatively enough. Puritanism sure ain't what it used to be.

zefhous 16y ago
I think it's quite an astute point. Easy access to porn desensitizes us sexually, and we no longer have to depend on our imaginations. It's not necessarily about FUD or a generational issue, it's something worth thinking about. I think these are important questions to consider: How does easy access to pornography affect the development of children? What are the effects of pornography and masturbation in my life? How does porn affect my marriage? How does masturbation affect my marriage?
- sev 16y ago
  The latter 3 are not too interesting IMO, because porn and masturbation have been around for centuries, and whatever effects they've had have become part of society. The first one might be an interesting one to consider. Of course this is assuming children get hold of the pornography at an earlier age than they should and continuously have easy access to it. And in my opinion, the only thing that occurs is that children will get desensitized to the typical types of sex early on, and when they reach the age where they will be participating, they will need or want more interesting, atypical, types of sex to fully enjoy themselves.
  - amirmc 16y ago
    ...whatever effects they've had have become part of society Your comment seems to imply that the effects are complete. I'd disagree with that. I'd say access to pornography has changed dramatically in recent years. Anyone with an internet connection can find porn in relative anonymity and I don't think we've seen the full effects of it yet. children will get desensitized to the typical types of sex early on As children become more sexually aware, they'll probably turn to the 'net to learn more. I suspect their expectations of what is 'normal' will be set by what they find there. I don't think it's just desensitisation that will take place.

jroes 16y ago

Funny title, interesting article. Is this really HN material though?

ErrantX 16y ago
I know this is a somewhat controversial topic (HN notability) but I think this particular article falls easily within intellectually stimulating (no pun intended :)). Also it is high brow enough not to count as gutter reading (in my mind anyway).
sramov 16y ago
Life hacking.
- ciupicri 16y ago
  Speaking of life, hacking together with someone of the opposite sex would be more productive than by yourself.
  - theBobMcCormick 16y ago
    You can't always have filet mignon. Sometime you just gonna make do with a hamburger. :-)
  - eru 16y ago
    If you want to re-produce, that is.
theBobMcCormick 16y ago
Why? Is evolutionary psychology not HN material? If it had been an almost identical article but about a topic other than masturbation (grooming, social rituals, etc), would that have made it more HN worthy? Why or why not?

sliverstorm 16y ago

What can we say- we have fingers, and more importantly thumbs, and that makes it a hellofalot easier. Thus we are head (and shoulders) ahead of most of the animal kingdom.

mikecane 16y ago

>>>male university students were found to masturbate to ejaculation about every 72 hours If that stat alone had been widespread a few decades ago, it would have prevented so much angst for so many.

drivebyacct 16y ago
Really 72 whole hours? Must be students with roommates.
jules 16y ago
This number seems very high to me. Perhaps we could do a poll?

Estragon 16y ago

I took his challenge, and succeeded, so I don't buy the theory that we're special because of our capacity for fantasy. (I did it for SCIENCE!)

msg 16y ago

Maybe this is dumb, but I opened this at work and it was a little more graphic and NSFW than I expected.

mortenjorck 16y ago
"Oh, hey, do you have a second to take a look at this over here?" "I'll be there in, uh, a minute."
dkarl 16y ago
Ditto. The link title should have indicated that this was marginally NSFW. I guess this comes up too rarely on HN for there to be any policy or convention about it.
mkramlich 16y ago
you clicked on a link to a story about masturbation and were surprised to find it NSFW?!
jules 16y ago
Maybe I'm missing something. I'm seeing a dude without a shirt. Is this NSFW? The average pop music clip is 100x more sexual.

elptacek 16y ago

One reason why not to read HN over lunch.

ciupicri 16y ago

> a veritable online smorgasbord of real people doing things our grandparents couldn’t have dreamt up even in their wettest of dreams Maybe our grandparents didn't even dream about it, but the ancient Greeks and Romans sure did a lot of those things.

crazydiamond 16y ago

From personal experience, I'd agree that lust requires the ability to string together thoughts. Having meditated for many years -- remaining in the present moment free of thought, ignoring any thought that comes, letting thoughts fall off as they arise -- lust / arousal are impossible (unless perhaps if one is married and does not need the mind for arousal). Are animals able to carry on a thought process, not sure? Dogs certainly seem to be more in the present than humans. That article links to another interesting one on asexuals.