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But when the elites adopt casual dress in their professional lives, what is left are much more subtle and hard-to-adopt class signifiers: manners of speaking, i

by gaius 9y ago

But when the elites adopt casual dress in their professional lives, what is left are much more subtle and hard-to-adopt class signifiers: manners of speaking, interests, childhood experiences, travel, etc The NYT had an article on this recently: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/opinion/how-we-are-ruining-america.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/opinion/how-we-are-ruinin... I took a friend with only a high school degree to lunch. Insensitively, I led her into a gourmet sandwich shop. Suddenly I saw her face freeze up as she was confronted with sandwiches named “Padrino” and “Pomodoro” and ingredients like soppressata, capicollo and a striata baguette. I quickly asked her if she wanted to go somewhere else and she anxiously nodded yes and we ate Mexican. American upper-middle-class culture (where the opportunities are) is now laced with cultural signifiers that are completely illegible unless you happen to have grown up in this class.

xxpor 9y ago
That op-ed was mocked mercilessly.
- marcoperaza 9y ago
  That's sometimes a sign that you're onto something. Donald Trump was mocked mercilessly. Looks like he got the last laugh. The sandwich shop example is a little weak, but I agree with Brook's point. There is a cultural segmenting of American society into the top 20% and the rest, and it's a strong barrier to social mobility. At the college I attended, there was a clear social barrier between the kids from upper middle class urban families, and those from lower middle class suburbia. The differences in interests and life experiences were profound and hard to overcome. Ironically, the much derided fraternity system was one of the few effective measures for bridging that gap, by creating common experiences and a new shared identity.
  - jldugger 9y ago
    >Donald Trump was mocked mercilessly. Looks like he got the last laugh. _Is_ mocked mercilessly, and I don't think he's got the last of anything yet.
    - digga3000 9y ago
      ... he's president of the united states?
      - jldugger 9y ago
        And half his family / cabinet is implicated in relaxing sanctions against the Russian kleptocracy in exchange for information damaging to his political rivals.
- gaius 9y ago
  I'll wager it cut pretty close to the bone for some.
DonbunEf7 9y ago
Sorry, and I know that this is on NYT, not you, but what the utter fuck is that paragraph about the sandwich shop? Walk through, say, Boston's North End. It's like walking into Italy. There are old men sitting in front of cafés muttering in Italian about the way the young folk dress. There are fresh pizzas and sandwiches with their smells wafting through the air. The streets are narrow, mostly pedestrian, and cobbled, with few cars coming and going. And, yes, if you go into a deli in the North End, you can buy cured meats with Italian names. This is not a wealthy neighborhood. There was a period of time in the past when Italian-Americans were the subject of quite a bit of prejudice and stereotyping. It's news to me that Italian culture is somehow "completely illegible" to the poor, and I can't help but feel that whatever point the author wanted to make is lost or perhaps flawed. (Somebody will say that the North End is uniquely Italian. Sure, but I grew up on the West Coast and learned about Italian sandwiches from an Italian sandwich shop anyway, because Italian sandwiches are not somehow confined to a tiny corner of Boston. Again, what the utter fuck.)
- huac 9y ago
  It didn't happen

by gaius 9y ago

xxpor 9y ago

That op-ed was mocked mercilessly.

marcoperaza 9y ago
That's sometimes a sign that you're onto something. Donald Trump was mocked mercilessly. Looks like he got the last laugh. The sandwich shop example is a little weak, but I agree with Brook's point. There is a cultural segmenting of American society into the top 20% and the rest, and it's a strong barrier to social mobility. At the college I attended, there was a clear social barrier between the kids from upper middle class urban families, and those from lower middle class suburbia. The differences in interests and life experiences were profound and hard to overcome. Ironically, the much derided fraternity system was one of the few effective measures for bridging that gap, by creating common experiences and a new shared identity.
- jldugger 9y ago
  >Donald Trump was mocked mercilessly. Looks like he got the last laugh. _Is_ mocked mercilessly, and I don't think he's got the last of anything yet.
  - digga3000 9y ago
    ... he's president of the united states?
    - jldugger 9y ago
      And half his family / cabinet is implicated in relaxing sanctions against the Russian kleptocracy in exchange for information damaging to his political rivals.
gaius 9y ago
I'll wager it cut pretty close to the bone for some.

DonbunEf7 9y ago

Sorry, and I know that this is on NYT, not you, but what the utter fuck is that paragraph about the sandwich shop? Walk through, say, Boston's North End. It's like walking into Italy. There are old men sitting in front of cafés muttering in Italian about the way the young folk dress. There are fresh pizzas and sandwiches with their smells wafting through the air. The streets are narrow, mostly pedestrian, and cobbled, with few cars coming and going. And, yes, if you go into a deli in the North End, you can buy cured meats with Italian names. This is not a wealthy neighborhood. There was a period of time in the past when Italian-Americans were the subject of quite a bit of prejudice and stereotyping. It's news to me that Italian culture is somehow "completely illegible" to the poor, and I can't help but feel that whatever point the author wanted to make is lost or perhaps flawed. (Somebody will say that the North End is uniquely Italian. Sure, but I grew up on the West Coast and learned about Italian sandwiches from an Italian sandwich shop anyway, because Italian sandwiches are not somehow confined to a tiny corner of Boston. Again, what the utter fuck.)

huac 9y ago
It didn't happen