4 ms·

There is no evidence that the middle class is being impoverished by automation. Automation has the effect of increasing wages. It's the sole reason wages today

There is no evidence that the middle class is being impoverished by automation. Automation has the effect of increasing wages. It's the sole reason wages today are 20X what they were 200 years ago. In any case, this is completely unrelated to housing usage patterns.

mistermann 9y ago
If you ignore all the unemployed people that are not classified as unemployed, you're right. Good thing to know there are literally no knock on effects from automation, it's just gravy for everyone.
- paulddraper 9y ago
  Did Jabanga edit commnet? The one I'm reading says nothing about "literally no effects". It says that centuries of real wage increases an effect of automation.
  - Jabanga 9y ago
    I did not edit my comment to remove "literally no effects".
  - mistermann 9y ago
    It also says "There is no evidence that the middle class is being impoverished by automation." Does that seem ambiguous to you?
- ty_a 9y ago
  This is truly an old meme. Replace the word automation with: horseless carriage, assembly line, ice makers, airplanes, digital computers, etc... I'm sure it's entirely different this time though.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    Wait....so job losses are not due to offshoring, it's due to automation. Now, it's not due to automation, it's due to....what?
    - Jabanga 9y ago
      But there is no reduction in the aggregate number of jobs.. Of course jobs are destroyed and created as the economy changes. That's always been the case and always will be. But the net effect of automation is more wealth being generated, which shifts the demand curve for labour to the right, causing wages to increases.
      - mistermann 9y ago
        > But there is no reduction in the aggregate number of jobs What about the median wage? > which shifts the demand curve for labour to the right, causing wages to increases Are you suggesting automation has resulted in most of the new wealth being broadly distributed to workers rather than concentrated in the top 10%?
        Jabanga 9y ago
        Globally, median wages are increasing at their fastest rate in history [1]. Wage growth for the middle class has stagnated in the US, but not nearly as much as some people (myself included, until recently) believe [2]. The primary cause of this slowdown in wage growth is slowing productivity growth [3], while the major secondary cause is growing income disparity. Growing income disparity can be traced [4] directly to growth in regulatory restrictions that impede the free market, and not automation or technology. [1] http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2016/0207/Progress-in-the-global-war-on-poverty http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2016/0207/Progress-in-the-glo... [2] https://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications/the-region/where-has-all-the-income-gone https://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications/the-region/where... [3] https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/sources-of-real-wage-stagnation/ https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/sources-of-real-wage-stag... [4] https://www.brookings.edu/research/make-elites-compete-why-the-1-earn-so-much-and-what-to-do-about-it/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/make-elites-compete-why-t...
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    > I'm sure it's entirely different this time though. Of course it is. Which is obvious if you look at how automation before differs from automation today. And I'm going over the obvious memes now, but: > Replace the word automation with: horseless carriage Yes, and replace the word "human" with horse", and tell me the invention did not have a dramatic impact on the population that was doing the work.
    - Jabanga 9y ago
      >Yes, and replace the word "human" with horse", and tell me the invention did not have a dramatic impact on the population that was doing the work. Humans are incomparable to horses. Horses cannot buy automobiles. They do not have property rights, or the capability to utilize them.
kodfodrasz 9y ago
I think you mistake automation with inflation.
- Jabanga 9y ago
  I'm providing inflation adjusted statistics.

mistermann 9y ago

If you ignore all the unemployed people that are not classified as unemployed, you're right. Good thing to know there are literally no knock on effects from automation, it's just gravy for everyone.

paulddraper 9y ago
Did Jabanga edit commnet? The one I'm reading says nothing about "literally no effects". It says that centuries of real wage increases an effect of automation.
- Jabanga 9y ago
  I did not edit my comment to remove "literally no effects".
- mistermann 9y ago
  It also says "There is no evidence that the middle class is being impoverished by automation." Does that seem ambiguous to you?
ty_a 9y ago
This is truly an old meme. Replace the word automation with: horseless carriage, assembly line, ice makers, airplanes, digital computers, etc... I'm sure it's entirely different this time though.
- mistermann 9y ago
  Wait....so job losses are not due to offshoring, it's due to automation. Now, it's not due to automation, it's due to....what?
  - Jabanga 9y ago
    But there is no reduction in the aggregate number of jobs.. Of course jobs are destroyed and created as the economy changes. That's always been the case and always will be. But the net effect of automation is more wealth being generated, which shifts the demand curve for labour to the right, causing wages to increases.
    - mistermann 9y ago
      > But there is no reduction in the aggregate number of jobs What about the median wage? > which shifts the demand curve for labour to the right, causing wages to increases Are you suggesting automation has resulted in most of the new wealth being broadly distributed to workers rather than concentrated in the top 10%?
      - Jabanga 9y ago
        Globally, median wages are increasing at their fastest rate in history [1]. Wage growth for the middle class has stagnated in the US, but not nearly as much as some people (myself included, until recently) believe [2]. The primary cause of this slowdown in wage growth is slowing productivity growth [3], while the major secondary cause is growing income disparity. Growing income disparity can be traced [4] directly to growth in regulatory restrictions that impede the free market, and not automation or technology. [1] http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2016/0207/Progress-in-the-global-war-on-poverty http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2016/0207/Progress-in-the-glo... [2] https://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications/the-region/where-has-all-the-income-gone https://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications/the-region/where... [3] https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/sources-of-real-wage-stagnation/ https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/sources-of-real-wage-stag... [4] https://www.brookings.edu/research/make-elites-compete-why-the-1-earn-so-much-and-what-to-do-about-it/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/make-elites-compete-why-t...
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  > I'm sure it's entirely different this time though. Of course it is. Which is obvious if you look at how automation before differs from automation today. And I'm going over the obvious memes now, but: > Replace the word automation with: horseless carriage Yes, and replace the word "human" with horse", and tell me the invention did not have a dramatic impact on the population that was doing the work.
  - Jabanga 9y ago
    >Yes, and replace the word "human" with horse", and tell me the invention did not have a dramatic impact on the population that was doing the work. Humans are incomparable to horses. Horses cannot buy automobiles. They do not have property rights, or the capability to utilize them.

kodfodrasz 9y ago

I think you mistake automation with inflation.

Jabanga 9y ago
I'm providing inflation adjusted statistics.