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I know it sounds like free market dogma, but I swear this is true: supply grows to meet demand. Airbnb will just encourage more housing to be built, by creating

I know it sounds like free market dogma, but I swear this is true: supply grows to meet demand. Airbnb will just encourage more housing to be built, by creating a new short term housing market that until now had not existed.

chongli 9y ago
That doesn't work for mountain towns. When skyscraper condos start going up it ceases to be a mountain town.
- Jabanga 9y ago
  The parent comment asked: "Where are people supposed to go when even the middle class is homeless?" They can go to places that aren't mountain towns. EDIT: or they can build new mountain towns. There is no shortage of mountains.
  - matheweis 9y ago
    There is a shortage of water, though, unless you solve desalination and pumping it up the several miles of elevation...
    - Jabanga 9y ago
      Right but there's no shortage of mountains where new towns can be built. If people really want to live in mountain towns, the market can meet that demand for pretty much any number of people.
      - ghaff 9y ago
        And, in fact, there are tons of "mountain towns" where real estate is cheap. They just aren't chi-chi mountain towns with cute coffee shops and gourmet restaurants often associated with world class ski areas.
- klipt 9y ago
  There's a wide spectrum between single family homes and skyscrapers. Pretty sure even Tahoe has some multi-storey hotels...
- baus 9y ago
  The definition of a mountain town is that the town is in the mountains. That doesn't depend on the number of stories built
mistermann 9y ago
What if they spent all their savings on rent and then lost their jobs due to automation, productivity gains needing less workers, or immigration (workers willing to work for less)? Supply grows to meet demand, but what if the demand side has no money left? I think a lot of these "timeless" rules of thumb are going to be discovered to be not so timeless after all.
- Jabanga 9y ago
  There is no evidence that the middle class is being impoverished by automation. Automation has the effect of increasing wages. It's the sole reason wages today are 20X what they were 200 years ago. In any case, this is completely unrelated to housing usage patterns.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    If you ignore all the unemployed people that are not classified as unemployed, you're right. Good thing to know there are literally no knock on effects from automation, it's just gravy for everyone.
    - paulddraper 9y ago
      Did Jabanga edit commnet? The one I'm reading says nothing about "literally no effects". It says that centuries of real wage increases an effect of automation.
      - Jabanga 9y ago
        I did not edit my comment to remove "literally no effects".
      - mistermann 9y ago
        It also says "There is no evidence that the middle class is being impoverished by automation." Does that seem ambiguous to you?
    - ty_a 9y ago
MegaButts 9y ago
> supply grows to meet demand Clearly you've never been to San Francisco.
matheweis 9y ago
In many mountain towns (like the one I just relocated from), supply is more or less permanently fixed due to constraints on land and water. Often they are bordered by Federally or state owned land, and have limited supplies of water due to the simple fact that they are on top of a mountain and there is only so much water in the natural aquifers. Building taller buildings and using water more efficiently will only get you so far...
- heylook 9y ago
  Your point is valid, but I think it doesn't give enough credit to technological innovation and market forces. We've figured out how to do pretty amazing and ridiculous things with the right incentives in place in the past, and I'm not sure what about this problem would classify it as impossible. To phrase it more glibly: "Necessity is the mother of invention."
  - matheweis 9y ago
    You're right of course; my "more or less" qualifier didn't quite get that point across, did it? :-)
CJefferson 9y ago
Have you seen the rise in house prices around most of the western world over the last 30 years? In particular in cities and high demand places? Growth in supply is a fraction of the increase in demand.

chongli 9y ago

That doesn't work for mountain towns. When skyscraper condos start going up it ceases to be a mountain town.

Jabanga 9y ago
The parent comment asked: "Where are people supposed to go when even the middle class is homeless?" They can go to places that aren't mountain towns. EDIT: or they can build new mountain towns. There is no shortage of mountains.
- matheweis 9y ago
  There is a shortage of water, though, unless you solve desalination and pumping it up the several miles of elevation...
  - Jabanga 9y ago
    Right but there's no shortage of mountains where new towns can be built. If people really want to live in mountain towns, the market can meet that demand for pretty much any number of people.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      And, in fact, there are tons of "mountain towns" where real estate is cheap. They just aren't chi-chi mountain towns with cute coffee shops and gourmet restaurants often associated with world class ski areas.
klipt 9y ago
There's a wide spectrum between single family homes and skyscrapers. Pretty sure even Tahoe has some multi-storey hotels...
baus 9y ago
The definition of a mountain town is that the town is in the mountains. That doesn't depend on the number of stories built

mistermann 9y ago

What if they spent all their savings on rent and then lost their jobs due to automation, productivity gains needing less workers, or immigration (workers willing to work for less)? Supply grows to meet demand, but what if the demand side has no money left? I think a lot of these "timeless" rules of thumb are going to be discovered to be not so timeless after all.

Jabanga 9y ago
There is no evidence that the middle class is being impoverished by automation. Automation has the effect of increasing wages. It's the sole reason wages today are 20X what they were 200 years ago. In any case, this is completely unrelated to housing usage patterns.
- mistermann 9y ago
  If you ignore all the unemployed people that are not classified as unemployed, you're right. Good thing to know there are literally no knock on effects from automation, it's just gravy for everyone.
  - paulddraper 9y ago
    Did Jabanga edit commnet? The one I'm reading says nothing about "literally no effects". It says that centuries of real wage increases an effect of automation.
    - Jabanga 9y ago
      I did not edit my comment to remove "literally no effects".
    - mistermann 9y ago
      It also says "There is no evidence that the middle class is being impoverished by automation." Does that seem ambiguous to you?
  - ty_a 9y ago

MegaButts 9y ago

> supply grows to meet demand Clearly you've never been to San Francisco.

matheweis 9y ago

In many mountain towns (like the one I just relocated from), supply is more or less permanently fixed due to constraints on land and water. Often they are bordered by Federally or state owned land, and have limited supplies of water due to the simple fact that they are on top of a mountain and there is only so much water in the natural aquifers. Building taller buildings and using water more efficiently will only get you so far...

heylook 9y ago
Your point is valid, but I think it doesn't give enough credit to technological innovation and market forces. We've figured out how to do pretty amazing and ridiculous things with the right incentives in place in the past, and I'm not sure what about this problem would classify it as impossible. To phrase it more glibly: "Necessity is the mother of invention."
- matheweis 9y ago
  You're right of course; my "more or less" qualifier didn't quite get that point across, did it? :-)

CJefferson 9y ago

Have you seen the rise in house prices around most of the western world over the last 30 years? In particular in cities and high demand places? Growth in supply is a fraction of the increase in demand.