4 ms·

I really suspect you don't understand how broad tech-noncompetes are. Given the court and arbitrator's lack of expertise, we see companies arguing that any sof

I really suspect you don't understand how broad tech-noncompetes are. Given the court and arbitrator's lack of expertise, we see companies arguing that any software work at all is competition. Especially for emrging high-demand fields like machine learning.

kafkaesq 9y ago
I really suspect you don't understand how broad tech-noncompetes are. Yeah, that's the issue basically. These things (and a lot of the golden handcuffs companies, especially inexperienced startups, like to slap on new employees - as if they didn't know any better) go way farther than anything remotely reasonable. The end result being to discourage genuine trust and collaboration, rather than to foster it.
Consultant32452 9y ago
Is this happening a lot in the tech world? I don't mean an anecdote here and there. I did some quick google searches and it seems like non-competes are usually enforced against people in sales/marketing of some sort, taking their client list with them. That seems like a completely reasonable enforcement. The instances that make headlines in the tech world are the ones where Uber may have intentionally stolen Google tech, or at least the employee intentionally brought Google tech with them to Uber. Again, completely reasonable.
- KirinDave 9y ago
  Yes. It happens to anyone who doesn't move to California. You can Google for stories on it.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    I didn't move to California and it's never happened to me or anyone I know. I did Google for stories on it and I couldn't find any stats. Do you have any?
    - KirinDave 9y ago
      Many Microsoft Employees. Maybe try googling. But there is also a larger question of why we allow them at all. They seem unconscionable in any industry. They're roughly akin to suggesting that if you train someone you own rights to their training.
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        That's really not helpful. How many is "many?" And how many of those "many" would a reasonable person think is justified? The Uber case I mentioned previously is something I think a reasonable person would find justified. Is MSFT a bad actor or is this an industry-wide problem?
        KirinDave 9y ago
        I spent 22 seconds more to Google this than then 45 seconds to type it in. I picked the first link in a string of many abuses of nocompetes. You will get no more of my time: http://gawker.com/378444/did-you-sign-googles-noncompete-good-youre-fired http://gawker.com/378444/did-you-sign-googles-noncompete-goo...
        Consultant32452 9y ago
        Again, how frequent/common is this in the industry? Articles with anecdotes are completely unhelpful. How many lawsuits have been filed in the past 5 years by former employers over non-competes? How many times have those employers won?
        KirinDave 9y ago
        Again, "Consultant32452," you're mistaking our relationship. You're quite welcome for the free information, but don't mistake my largesse for interest in your conclusions or an obligation to help you. You couldn't even say, "Please" or thank me for what I've offered you thus far. Is common decency not part of the cultural consensus where you're from?
slaymaker1907 9y ago
I think in cases like those, we as a community ought to work on nullifying such decisions by refusing to cooperate at all with them. An artist would refuse to surrender their art over such ridiculous nonsense so why shouldn't programmers? In the artist metaphor, I also assume that it took a non-trivial amount of time, say a year.

kafkaesq 9y ago

I really suspect you don't understand how broad tech-noncompetes are. Yeah, that's the issue basically. These things (and a lot of the golden handcuffs companies, especially inexperienced startups, like to slap on new employees - as if they didn't know any better) go way farther than anything remotely reasonable. The end result being to discourage genuine trust and collaboration, rather than to foster it.

Consultant32452 9y ago

Is this happening a lot in the tech world? I don't mean an anecdote here and there. I did some quick google searches and it seems like non-competes are usually enforced against people in sales/marketing of some sort, taking their client list with them. That seems like a completely reasonable enforcement. The instances that make headlines in the tech world are the ones where Uber may have intentionally stolen Google tech, or at least the employee intentionally brought Google tech with them to Uber. Again, completely reasonable.

KirinDave 9y ago
Yes. It happens to anyone who doesn't move to California. You can Google for stories on it.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  I didn't move to California and it's never happened to me or anyone I know. I did Google for stories on it and I couldn't find any stats. Do you have any?
  - KirinDave 9y ago
    Many Microsoft Employees. Maybe try googling. But there is also a larger question of why we allow them at all. They seem unconscionable in any industry. They're roughly akin to suggesting that if you train someone you own rights to their training.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      That's really not helpful. How many is "many?" And how many of those "many" would a reasonable person think is justified? The Uber case I mentioned previously is something I think a reasonable person would find justified. Is MSFT a bad actor or is this an industry-wide problem?
      - KirinDave 9y ago
        I spent 22 seconds more to Google this than then 45 seconds to type it in. I picked the first link in a string of many abuses of nocompetes. You will get no more of my time: http://gawker.com/378444/did-you-sign-googles-noncompete-good-youre-fired http://gawker.com/378444/did-you-sign-googles-noncompete-goo...
        Consultant32452 9y ago
        Again, how frequent/common is this in the industry? Articles with anecdotes are completely unhelpful. How many lawsuits have been filed in the past 5 years by former employers over non-competes? How many times have those employers won?
        KirinDave 9y ago
        Again, "Consultant32452," you're mistaking our relationship. You're quite welcome for the free information, but don't mistake my largesse for interest in your conclusions or an obligation to help you. You couldn't even say, "Please" or thank me for what I've offered you thus far. Is common decency not part of the cultural consensus where you're from?

slaymaker1907 9y ago

I think in cases like those, we as a community ought to work on nullifying such decisions by refusing to cooperate at all with them. An artist would refuse to surrender their art over such ridiculous nonsense so why shouldn't programmers? In the artist metaphor, I also assume that it took a non-trivial amount of time, say a year.