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Sounds like a horrible idea full of assumptions and pressure, as opposed to offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually)

Sounds like a horrible idea full of assumptions and pressure, as opposed to offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually), a nice option for those who can afford it. Not everyone has to be coaxed into entrepreneurship, it's an evil of our consumerist age. Your kid would probably rather participate in society at large than in your suicidal runway idea of a romanticized youth of modern times. "Starting something" with no experience at all is almost guaranteed to mean burned cash, family resentment and a bunch of hard lessons. Why not send them to military school and spare cash and suffering?

keeptrying 9y ago
I've seen parents essentially drive kids into liberal arts by pressuring kids to try everything else. Pointing a kid in the right direction is high art.
- tensor 9y ago
  You say this as though liberal arts is bad, perhaps that's what some people want to do. Don't see anything wrong with it.
  - pirocks 9y ago
    > You say this as though liberal arts is bad, perhaps that's what some people want to do. Currently in the US you have no choice (if your going to college) as to whether or not you get a liberal arts education. Pretty much every school in the US have strong general education requirements. So perhaps some people want to do liberal arts, and that's great but Imo it is being imposed on the entire society.
    - maxerickson 9y ago
      I don't know what they are now but I satisfied the gen ed requirements of my engineering degree with 2 classes of Spanish, 2 classes of economics, 2 classes of philosophy and 1 class of history. I tested out of the Spanish (approximately by knowing "perro", that is knowing some basic vocabulary) and still got 8 credit hours for it. Math, chemistry and physics (4,1 and 2 classes) are technically liberal arts, but they were also sort of applicable to my degree. I suppose there is an argument to be made that 1.5 semesters is a "strong" requirement, but not really, especially when it includes 3-4 beginner classes that are mostly surveys.
notadoc 9y ago
> offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually) That is exactly what college is, and is supposed to be. Many people make the mistake of thinking that college is a jobs training program, or a career readiness program - it's not. It was never intended to be. College is supposed to give someone a broader perspective, a more complex worldview, exposure to a vast array of topics and ideas, and to develop habits that are generally beneficial to any life or intellectual pursuit. That's it. Entrepreneurship is great, and it will teach you many different things and some hard lessons as well, but it's not going to even remotely offer the same sort of experience or exposure. It's not college, you're not reading classical literature as part of a startup grind. Also, society needs to accept that for some people, neither college, nor "starting something", is well suited or an appropriate expectation. Some people just aren't cut out for either, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people would be better off learning a trade, or going through an apprenticeship, or being self taught, or any number of other means of learning and developing skills.
- pirocks 9y ago
  Sorry for being edgy, but please tell me where I can get jobs training for being a doctor, lawyer, etc. that isn't college. Regardless of what you think college is, college currently is primarily jobs training.
  - Hydraulix989 9y ago
    You're conflating college with professional school.
    - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
      Colleges conflate college with professional school. The first time I visited my alma mater as a high school senior, I told them I wanted to be a programmer when I grew up, and they said "You'll want our computer science program, then." Nobody ever recommended me to a technical school instead, or told me that the CS program would teach me very basic programming, lots of academically interesting stuff about operating systems and electronics and math, and practically nothing that prepared me for a career. They were perfectly happy to take my money and let me believe that I was learning professional skills.
RobbieStats 9y ago
I take it you didn't read the article. The whole point is to provide more options than the single track path that has dominated the post high school mindset, not to say they have to go one way or another. Plenty of great entrepreneurs start their company with little to no experience. Having done both, I think you can learn a lot more starting a company than you can at college.
- Pamar 9y ago
  I am not sure that "starting something" is a good idea when one of the two alternatives can be completed succesfully by applying yourself diligently (i.e. studying hard enough to pass with good grades) while the other can fail for any of a large number of reasons, mostly outside of your control. I.e. if the author's son or daughter opts for starting a company, works hard and diligently, and after three years it goes bankrupt due to: - A competitor cuts them out of the market - New regulatory laws make the original idea unprofitable/untenable - A technical breakthrough makes the product unappealing The boy/girl may have worked as hard as if they were in college, or even way harder. And after three years their company is in debt, they have nothing worth selling/salvaging, and they are 3 years late to go to college. Also, it is not clear if the parent intends to provide something more than just seeding money. From the article it looks like that. Is this really so? Suppose that the "baby-entrepreneur" has a really dumb idea for a start-up, but they are "passionate" about this (how many 18-years old can be passionate about financially untenable ideas?). Will the author provide money even if he cannot see anything reasonable getting out of it? And after it has failed, will he have enough money to pay an equivalent sum for going back to college?
  - RobbieStats 9y ago
    I left an amazing job at a high tech company to start my own company. We had a successful exit five years later, but I've always said that if the company went belly up after 2 or 3 years it would have been WELL worth it. I don't associate being a successful entrepreneur or having success with a big exit. The point is to learn and try new things. Of course I'd help my kid get the company off the ground in whatever capacity they'd like. I help a half dozen companies now in an advisory role and I'd do the same for them.
zachlatta 9y ago
What? How is this pressuring his kid into pursuing entrepreneurship? He's still covering college. > If after high school my kids are eager to enter a college and start a path of learning and/or self-discovery, I’ll cover four years of tuition. However, if they have an idea for a company that they are passionate about and want to start working on that, I’ll be the first investor in their “seed round.” College will always be there (until it goes away entirely, ha) so he/she can always do that if the company doesn’t work out. I’m calling it their Start Something Fund. Either start a company or start college.
xxSparkleSxx 9y ago
Congrats on being so dumb you needed to be spoon fed books to do a job? I know this is offensive, but I'm really tired of dumb people projecting their stupidity on everyone else! Open your mind and realize people are different than you. I don't know what you think college is. For most people of above average intelligence it is not an efficient use of their time until you consider the bullshit that is required to even get a decent job or do interesting work. College is a really shitty way to learn and progress as a human, but with the bullshit companies stipulate it becomes "a worthwhile investment." I would also argue that if you are not good at independent learning then it may be worthwhile as well. If it became illegal to check for college degrees/ask for college degrees during the hiring process, we'd find out the true value of college very quick. I bet it's less than 20% as valuable as we believe.
dikdik 9y ago
Why is everyone that disagrees with you being flagged? We don't accept dissent or discussion here?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- detaro 9y ago
  I see one flagged comment, and that starts with an insult. There are other comments disagreeing visible (and not even grey), so what are you on about?
gragas 9y ago
>as opposed to offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually), To me, college has been the opposite. Most people I know feel restricted to getting a 9-to-5 job and are very stressed about how much they will make compared to their peers. Nearly all of the depressed people I know feel very restricted. They feel as though they cannot get out of their situation in life. I think this is only bolstered by the enormous debt and time investment that comes with going to college---one or two small decisions (perhaps going into economics rather than stats, or going into chemical engineering rather than computer science) can lead to major regrets a few years down the line. These people feel trapped and full of regret. They don't know what to do. Stepping aside and exploring opportunities that don't funnel you through a massive rat-race can be the biggest relief.
DeBraid 9y ago
> a bunch of hard lessons That is the gamble. If your 19 year old kid burns $100,000 over 1 year trying to start a business, or, pays another form of "tuition" at a traditional university? Probably good cases to be made either way.
Chathamization 9y ago
> Not everyone has to be coaxed into entrepreneurship Not everyone has to go to college, either. It's always interesting that these discussions often have people both saying that college made them much more open minded, and heaping derision on unorthodox approaches like these. It's great that some people find college useful for their personal growth. It would be even greater if college also impressed upon those who attended the fact that not everyone is like them and not everyone is going to find it as useful as they did. When I compare my personal growth, I've found that non-college experiences were much more effective for myself. People talk about learning as a group and having their ideas challenged - I've found that (again, for myself) this is much more effective in groups outside of college, where you get a much greater diversity in terms of age and experience (the relative homogeneity of college might be part of the reason why some of its graduates extol it's virtues as a homogeneous solution). College is also highly structured and hierarchical compared to many other experiences, and I wonder if that's one of the reason why some of its graduates don't see similar opportunities in less structured experiences. Again, if college works for you, great. But we should stop acting like it works for anyone, or that it's the only approach (or even a particularly good approach) for personal exploration and enrichment.
MaulingMonkey 9y ago
> Sounds like a horrible idea full of assumptions and pressure, You've just described how I view the idea of myself going to college straight after high school, despite being quite able to afford an exploratory period and having been a straight A student for a long time. I was burned out on studying for a grade (among other things). While you're right to be wary of shoving someone onto the entrepreneurship track, you'll not convince me that shoving them onto the college track is necessarily better. There are plenty of stories of burned cash, family resentment over "wasted" college educations, and learning the sometimes brutal lessons that your college degree (if you managed to finish it) no longer guarantees you a good job, or that debt sucks. I ended up spending very little of my "college" fund, and after some much cheaper and less stressful non-college exploration, eventually landed a career in gamedev - something I'd extensively studied outside of school for myself and my interests rather than a grade, and cost me very little more than my time.

keeptrying 9y ago

I've seen parents essentially drive kids into liberal arts by pressuring kids to try everything else. Pointing a kid in the right direction is high art.

tensor 9y ago
You say this as though liberal arts is bad, perhaps that's what some people want to do. Don't see anything wrong with it.
- pirocks 9y ago
  > You say this as though liberal arts is bad, perhaps that's what some people want to do. Currently in the US you have no choice (if your going to college) as to whether or not you get a liberal arts education. Pretty much every school in the US have strong general education requirements. So perhaps some people want to do liberal arts, and that's great but Imo it is being imposed on the entire society.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    I don't know what they are now but I satisfied the gen ed requirements of my engineering degree with 2 classes of Spanish, 2 classes of economics, 2 classes of philosophy and 1 class of history. I tested out of the Spanish (approximately by knowing "perro", that is knowing some basic vocabulary) and still got 8 credit hours for it. Math, chemistry and physics (4,1 and 2 classes) are technically liberal arts, but they were also sort of applicable to my degree. I suppose there is an argument to be made that 1.5 semesters is a "strong" requirement, but not really, especially when it includes 3-4 beginner classes that are mostly surveys.

notadoc 9y ago

> offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually) That is exactly what college is, and is supposed to be. Many people make the mistake of thinking that college is a jobs training program, or a career readiness program - it's not. It was never intended to be. College is supposed to give someone a broader perspective, a more complex worldview, exposure to a vast array of topics and ideas, and to develop habits that are generally beneficial to any life or intellectual pursuit. That's it. Entrepreneurship is great, and it will teach you many different things and some hard lessons as well, but it's not going to even remotely offer the same sort of experience or exposure. It's not college, you're not reading classical literature as part of a startup grind. Also, society needs to accept that for some people, neither college, nor "starting something", is well suited or an appropriate expectation. Some people just aren't cut out for either, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people would be better off learning a trade, or going through an apprenticeship, or being self taught, or any number of other means of learning and developing skills.

pirocks 9y ago
Sorry for being edgy, but please tell me where I can get jobs training for being a doctor, lawyer, etc. that isn't college. Regardless of what you think college is, college currently is primarily jobs training.
- Hydraulix989 9y ago
  You're conflating college with professional school.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    Colleges conflate college with professional school. The first time I visited my alma mater as a high school senior, I told them I wanted to be a programmer when I grew up, and they said "You'll want our computer science program, then." Nobody ever recommended me to a technical school instead, or told me that the CS program would teach me very basic programming, lots of academically interesting stuff about operating systems and electronics and math, and practically nothing that prepared me for a career. They were perfectly happy to take my money and let me believe that I was learning professional skills.

RobbieStats 9y ago

I take it you didn't read the article. The whole point is to provide more options than the single track path that has dominated the post high school mindset, not to say they have to go one way or another. Plenty of great entrepreneurs start their company with little to no experience. Having done both, I think you can learn a lot more starting a company than you can at college.

Pamar 9y ago
I am not sure that "starting something" is a good idea when one of the two alternatives can be completed succesfully by applying yourself diligently (i.e. studying hard enough to pass with good grades) while the other can fail for any of a large number of reasons, mostly outside of your control. I.e. if the author's son or daughter opts for starting a company, works hard and diligently, and after three years it goes bankrupt due to: - A competitor cuts them out of the market - New regulatory laws make the original idea unprofitable/untenable - A technical breakthrough makes the product unappealing The boy/girl may have worked as hard as if they were in college, or even way harder. And after three years their company is in debt, they have nothing worth selling/salvaging, and they are 3 years late to go to college. Also, it is not clear if the parent intends to provide something more than just seeding money. From the article it looks like that. Is this really so? Suppose that the "baby-entrepreneur" has a really dumb idea for a start-up, but they are "passionate" about this (how many 18-years old can be passionate about financially untenable ideas?). Will the author provide money even if he cannot see anything reasonable getting out of it? And after it has failed, will he have enough money to pay an equivalent sum for going back to college?
- RobbieStats 9y ago
  I left an amazing job at a high tech company to start my own company. We had a successful exit five years later, but I've always said that if the company went belly up after 2 or 3 years it would have been WELL worth it. I don't associate being a successful entrepreneur or having success with a big exit. The point is to learn and try new things. Of course I'd help my kid get the company off the ground in whatever capacity they'd like. I help a half dozen companies now in an advisory role and I'd do the same for them.

zachlatta 9y ago

What? How is this pressuring his kid into pursuing entrepreneurship? He's still covering college. > If after high school my kids are eager to enter a college and start a path of learning and/or self-discovery, I’ll cover four years of tuition. However, if they have an idea for a company that they are passionate about and want to start working on that, I’ll be the first investor in their “seed round.” College will always be there (until it goes away entirely, ha) so he/she can always do that if the company doesn’t work out. I’m calling it their Start Something Fund. Either start a company or start college.

xxSparkleSxx 9y ago

Congrats on being so dumb you needed to be spoon fed books to do a job? I know this is offensive, but I'm really tired of dumb people projecting their stupidity on everyone else! Open your mind and realize people are different than you. I don't know what you think college is. For most people of above average intelligence it is not an efficient use of their time until you consider the bullshit that is required to even get a decent job or do interesting work. College is a really shitty way to learn and progress as a human, but with the bullshit companies stipulate it becomes "a worthwhile investment." I would also argue that if you are not good at independent learning then it may be worthwhile as well. If it became illegal to check for college degrees/ask for college degrees during the hiring process, we'd find out the true value of college very quick. I bet it's less than 20% as valuable as we believe.

dikdik 9y ago

Why is everyone that disagrees with you being flagged? We don't accept dissent or discussion here?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
detaro 9y ago
I see one flagged comment, and that starts with an insult. There are other comments disagreeing visible (and not even grey), so what are you on about?

gragas 9y ago

>as opposed to offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually), To me, college has been the opposite. Most people I know feel restricted to getting a 9-to-5 job and are very stressed about how much they will make compared to their peers. Nearly all of the depressed people I know feel very restricted. They feel as though they cannot get out of their situation in life. I think this is only bolstered by the enormous debt and time investment that comes with going to college---one or two small decisions (perhaps going into economics rather than stats, or going into chemical engineering rather than computer science) can lead to major regrets a few years down the line. These people feel trapped and full of regret. They don't know what to do. Stepping aside and exploring opportunities that don't funnel you through a massive rat-race can be the biggest relief.

DeBraid 9y ago

> a bunch of hard lessons That is the gamble. If your 19 year old kid burns $100,000 over 1 year trying to start a business, or, pays another form of "tuition" at a traditional university? Probably good cases to be made either way.

Chathamization 9y ago

> Not everyone has to be coaxed into entrepreneurship Not everyone has to go to college, either. It's always interesting that these discussions often have people both saying that college made them much more open minded, and heaping derision on unorthodox approaches like these. It's great that some people find college useful for their personal growth. It would be even greater if college also impressed upon those who attended the fact that not everyone is like them and not everyone is going to find it as useful as they did. When I compare my personal growth, I've found that non-college experiences were much more effective for myself. People talk about learning as a group and having their ideas challenged - I've found that (again, for myself) this is much more effective in groups outside of college, where you get a much greater diversity in terms of age and experience (the relative homogeneity of college might be part of the reason why some of its graduates extol it's virtues as a homogeneous solution). College is also highly structured and hierarchical compared to many other experiences, and I wonder if that's one of the reason why some of its graduates don't see similar opportunities in less structured experiences. Again, if college works for you, great. But we should stop acting like it works for anyone, or that it's the only approach (or even a particularly good approach) for personal exploration and enrichment.

MaulingMonkey 9y ago

> Sounds like a horrible idea full of assumptions and pressure, You've just described how I view the idea of myself going to college straight after high school, despite being quite able to afford an exploratory period and having been a straight A student for a long time. I was burned out on studying for a grade (among other things). While you're right to be wary of shoving someone onto the entrepreneurship track, you'll not convince me that shoving them onto the college track is necessarily better. There are plenty of stories of burned cash, family resentment over "wasted" college educations, and learning the sometimes brutal lessons that your college degree (if you managed to finish it) no longer guarantees you a good job, or that debt sucks. I ended up spending very little of my "college" fund, and after some much cheaper and less stressful non-college exploration, eventually landed a career in gamedev - something I'd extensively studied outside of school for myself and my interests rather than a grade, and cost me very little more than my time.