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I didn't wanted to started this flamewar. But i have to discuss this because my country is under attack from insane right wing mentality when in our country we

by 0xFFC 9y ago

I didn't wanted to started this flamewar. But i have to discuss this because my country is under attack from insane right wing mentality when in our country we have great opportunities and great universities. Even Mirzakhani addressed this issue. You can search about it. When she talks about how people in Western countries think about Iran as jungle which every men burns USA flags every day and chants "death to America", when it is not true at all.

dang 9y ago
(Edit: the above comment has been edited to say "I didn't wanted to start this flamewar". Originally it said "I wanted to start this flamewar". Probably this was just a language misfire and that's fine, but since there were objections below I should make clear that my reply was posted prior to the edit, as you can see from the bit that I quoted.) > I wanted to started this flamewar. Because my country is under attack from insane I respect your country. Nevertheless this violates HN's rules and if you do it again we will ban you. The only place to keep Hacker News as a place for things that gratify intellectual curiosity is to keep it free of nationalistic indignation, however justified. It's always justified, and it's always off topic here.
- 0xFFC 9y ago
  >I respect your country. Nevertheless this violates HN's rules and if you do it again we will ban you. Genuinely asking, which rules? Sorry i need to clarify what I meant by country. I don't respect flags and idea. So we can both agree i am not nationalist. I don't respect the idea of iran or USA or etc. I respect humanity. By country what I meant was the people. Out people (take for example students m) are under fierce attack of right wing mentality as terrorist when there is literally 0 terroric attack related to iran happen in USA in any last 20 years(50 years?). Yet i cannot visa and i am waiting for almost 1 year even considering i have full scholarship from UIC. But Suadi Arabia which literally where every terroristic attack rooted from in last 20 year is not in the ban list. So , genuinely asking. I am nationalist, or i am trying to present a logical question?
  - dang 9y ago
    These rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Especially the rules regarding civility, politics, and intellectual curiosity, which are the most important ones. Nationalistic flamewar—which you started—is the essence of all that we don't want here, regardless of how well-intentioned you are. Life-and-death questions of national identity are far stronger and more important than the things that gratify intellectual curiosity. For that reason, we all (and you in particular) need to bracket those stronger topics and stronger emotions when commenting here. To do anything else is to give up on having a site dedicated to intellectual curiosity at all, and given that that's the raison d'etre of Hacker News, we can't allow that. It's time for you to stop commenting now and really take this in.
    - 0xFFC 9y ago
      Okay, but I really wanted to show a broader issue which targeted us (Iranian students who have trouble getting visa from USA, when some terrorist can do). And remember Mirzakhani was in a position exactly like myself in one day. She was from iran, finished her bachelor and was applying to USA universities. I bet u she had trouble getting visas because of what we discussed already. Anyway in respect to HN and to show my good intention i am not going to comment in this topic any further, thank u and RIP Mirzakhani.
      - prance 9y ago
        Thank you for giving your perspective on this, I for one appreciate it. I also don't see how you've violated the guidelines (which btw. are called "guidelines" and not "rules", but that's another issue). Where you mentioned politics, you were merely stating facts or personal experience.
    - nkoren 9y ago
      I'm very disturbed by your comments. 0xFFC has not been uncivil, nationalistic, or even particularly political. He was merely pointing out that Maryam was representative of a society that is more diverse and tolerant than many people imagine -- an issue that she herself cared about and occasionally addressed. That is fair and on-topic social statement; his only nod to politics was the words "despite our theocratic regime", which I'd also add is a perfectly fair comment. And yet you slap him down and not davidf18, whose response is, in fact, overtly nationalistic and entirely off-topic. I would kindly ask you to rethink how you moderate this.
- panic 9y ago
  At least by my reading, 0xFFC's comment wasn't particularly nationalistic. He or she wasn't putting Iran above other nations or expressing loyalty or devotion to the Iranian state (in fact by calling out "the regime" I'd say it was the opposite of that). I understand wanting to avoid flamewars, but I think you're putting the blame on the wrong person here.
  - dang 9y ago
    It isn't a question of blaming a person. It's a question of where the flamewar started, and it's clear that it started with the off-topic, generic, nationally-themed comment that began with Iran, went straight to an opposition to Saudi Arabia, etc. I didn't say this was intentional—on the contrary. It would be nice if unintentional fires didn't burn as hot as intentional ones, but the opposite is the case. The way we moderate threads like this is rooted in many years of experience with the dynamics of internet forums. It was predictable that a comment like that would provoke a flamewar (as indeed we got, leading all the way to the Godwin-lite of 9/11). Commenters here need to learn about this dynamic and be less negligent if they want to keep commenting here—otherwise the site will end up in flames. If most of you (where by you I mean all of us) look at your reactions closely, you'll notice that in most cases where you dislike a moderation decision, it's because you sympathize with the comment that was moderated. But when we ask someone not to start flamewars or ask them to stop continuing a flamewar, such moderation posts are quite orthogonal to the content of the argument. I can sympathize 100% with the content of a comment and sympathize 100% with its author's feelings and still post exactly the same as if those numbers were 0 rather than 100. (Edit: this is a slight exaggeration, but in a way that's a separate topic.) It's just the nature of the job, and the same would be true for anyone else after they'd done this enough thousands of times.

by 0xFFC 9y ago

dang 9y ago

(Edit: the above comment has been edited to say "I didn't wanted to start this flamewar". Originally it said "I wanted to start this flamewar". Probably this was just a language misfire and that's fine, but since there were objections below I should make clear that my reply was posted prior to the edit, as you can see from the bit that I quoted.) > I wanted to started this flamewar. Because my country is under attack from insane I respect your country. Nevertheless this violates HN's rules and if you do it again we will ban you. The only place to keep Hacker News as a place for things that gratify intellectual curiosity is to keep it free of nationalistic indignation, however justified. It's always justified, and it's always off topic here.

0xFFC 9y ago
>I respect your country. Nevertheless this violates HN's rules and if you do it again we will ban you. Genuinely asking, which rules? Sorry i need to clarify what I meant by country. I don't respect flags and idea. So we can both agree i am not nationalist. I don't respect the idea of iran or USA or etc. I respect humanity. By country what I meant was the people. Out people (take for example students m) are under fierce attack of right wing mentality as terrorist when there is literally 0 terroric attack related to iran happen in USA in any last 20 years(50 years?). Yet i cannot visa and i am waiting for almost 1 year even considering i have full scholarship from UIC. But Suadi Arabia which literally where every terroristic attack rooted from in last 20 year is not in the ban list. So , genuinely asking. I am nationalist, or i am trying to present a logical question?
- dang 9y ago
  These rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Especially the rules regarding civility, politics, and intellectual curiosity, which are the most important ones. Nationalistic flamewar—which you started—is the essence of all that we don't want here, regardless of how well-intentioned you are. Life-and-death questions of national identity are far stronger and more important than the things that gratify intellectual curiosity. For that reason, we all (and you in particular) need to bracket those stronger topics and stronger emotions when commenting here. To do anything else is to give up on having a site dedicated to intellectual curiosity at all, and given that that's the raison d'etre of Hacker News, we can't allow that. It's time for you to stop commenting now and really take this in.
  - 0xFFC 9y ago
    Okay, but I really wanted to show a broader issue which targeted us (Iranian students who have trouble getting visa from USA, when some terrorist can do). And remember Mirzakhani was in a position exactly like myself in one day. She was from iran, finished her bachelor and was applying to USA universities. I bet u she had trouble getting visas because of what we discussed already. Anyway in respect to HN and to show my good intention i am not going to comment in this topic any further, thank u and RIP Mirzakhani.
    - prance 9y ago
      Thank you for giving your perspective on this, I for one appreciate it. I also don't see how you've violated the guidelines (which btw. are called "guidelines" and not "rules", but that's another issue). Where you mentioned politics, you were merely stating facts or personal experience.
  - nkoren 9y ago
    I'm very disturbed by your comments. 0xFFC has not been uncivil, nationalistic, or even particularly political. He was merely pointing out that Maryam was representative of a society that is more diverse and tolerant than many people imagine -- an issue that she herself cared about and occasionally addressed. That is fair and on-topic social statement; his only nod to politics was the words "despite our theocratic regime", which I'd also add is a perfectly fair comment. And yet you slap him down and not davidf18, whose response is, in fact, overtly nationalistic and entirely off-topic. I would kindly ask you to rethink how you moderate this.
panic 9y ago
At least by my reading, 0xFFC's comment wasn't particularly nationalistic. He or she wasn't putting Iran above other nations or expressing loyalty or devotion to the Iranian state (in fact by calling out "the regime" I'd say it was the opposite of that). I understand wanting to avoid flamewars, but I think you're putting the blame on the wrong person here.
- dang 9y ago
  It isn't a question of blaming a person. It's a question of where the flamewar started, and it's clear that it started with the off-topic, generic, nationally-themed comment that began with Iran, went straight to an opposition to Saudi Arabia, etc. I didn't say this was intentional—on the contrary. It would be nice if unintentional fires didn't burn as hot as intentional ones, but the opposite is the case. The way we moderate threads like this is rooted in many years of experience with the dynamics of internet forums. It was predictable that a comment like that would provoke a flamewar (as indeed we got, leading all the way to the Godwin-lite of 9/11). Commenters here need to learn about this dynamic and be less negligent if they want to keep commenting here—otherwise the site will end up in flames. If most of you (where by you I mean all of us) look at your reactions closely, you'll notice that in most cases where you dislike a moderation decision, it's because you sympathize with the comment that was moderated. But when we ask someone not to start flamewars or ask them to stop continuing a flamewar, such moderation posts are quite orthogonal to the content of the argument. I can sympathize 100% with the content of a comment and sympathize 100% with its author's feelings and still post exactly the same as if those numbers were 0 rather than 100. (Edit: this is a slight exaggeration, but in a way that's a separate topic.) It's just the nature of the job, and the same would be true for anyone else after they'd done this enough thousands of times.