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Unfortunately it seems that the same smiley, inoffensive, A-for-effort mentality that exists in our school system has fully invaded the corporate world. I expe

Unfortunately it seems that the same smiley, inoffensive, A-for-effort mentality that exists in our school system has fully invaded the corporate world. I experienced this personally after talking to a report about their absenteeism. Within a day I received a lengthy email from them complaining about my directness. That 30 second exchange was escalated to management; they agreed that my feedback was justified (the employee in question had missed our team's only recurring meeting for the past month) but suggested I adjust my "tone" to avoid embarrassing them. I can't help but see similarities when I read this article. Speak directly to someone and they'll get their feelings hurt. Sugarcoat it and they'll claim that you weren't clear enough. Casually hint at the issue and they'll claim you were passive aggressive. Something is fundamentally wrong with an environment where adults can't have honest and direct interaction for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

csydas 9y ago
While I appreciate your agreement, I disagree with the reasoning - I don't think it has anything to do with that (and you can check my comments to see that I don't even think that "issue" is all that much of an issue in and of itself [1]) Instead, I think it's just a bad mixture of arrogance and antiquated power relationships in the modern workplace. Especially with technology, the age difference between any given two employees can be pretty drastic in either direction; with two peers, this typically isn't much of a problem, but when you have a manager/employee relationship, this can strain the relationship if both sides aren't willing to get outside of their comfort zones a little. Some of my most difficult colleagues and employees were people who were older than me, or thought they were (I look much younger than I actually am), who felt they could just ignore me because of my age. (or theirs, same result if for different reasons) And for sure, they took being wrong very hard, especially if I were the one to disagree and explain why. Similarly, the love of having a social status quo makes it very difficult to enact change in people via any confrontation. People aren't just resistant to change they themselves aren't trying to enact, they're hostile towards it. The countless games I've seen played where poor programmers had to convince their bosses that a project was actually the boss' idea are simply ludicrous, but it's the only way in these environments that such projects were able to happen. When a team works well together, it's because of mutual respect - the best teams I've been in, despite drastic differences in age, politics, and philosophies, everyone got along well professionally and respected each other's domains, challenging appropriately, but also conceding when appropriately. It's when people start digging their heels in and insisting that they've conceded enough or let pride get in the way that we get stories like you mentioned or like the author is describing. It takes a lot of maturity to quiet the part of you that wants to fight every criticism simply due to the fact that it's a criticism; it's that impulsive response, plus the above reasons, that people have such issues. (Of course, all my opinion and experience, your mileage may vary) [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14485882 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14485882
thinkfurther 9y ago
> but suggested I adjust my "tone" to avoid embarrassing them. Oh, I know this so well, but also from incompetent superiors. Not giving you an example of what would be a better tone, but just vague things like that. Of course, if I'm not a bit late too often, or something obvious like that, I don't need a tutorial on how to get out of bed in time. "Ahem, cut it out" is enough there. But in other cases, it really felt like they were bluffing, and I realized I really need to leave ASAP when I could actually call the bluff and leave them standing. E.g. boss comes up because they think I've been taking too long on task X, which they know fuck all about, proudly so ("I don't need to know that"). They stand next to me, ask if I need help which translated to "why are you still doing this", I roll my eyes (NOT because my feelings were hurt, really just because I was doing my very best, and because I knew I was doing better works than their "metrics glasses" allowed them to see) and say "should I explain what I'm doing? that'll just take more time but okay" and they'd be like "oh okay, I was just saying". In a way, that was funny, in another totally unacceptable. Even more than clowning around in school, I wanted teachers I can respect. Even more than slacking off at work, I want to get shit done and get supported in doing it. If I'm doing something wrong, I want to be told what it is, in concrete terms. Because otherwise, I'm suspecting you don't even know, and that I should have your job. Roughly speaking. I certainly met a fair share of people who hardly worked because they were higher in the hierarchy. They were sweating because they constantly had to pretend to know what they're doing, not because they worked so hard. Not that I wanted their job, but when they were sick nothing changed on the ground floor other than who stamped or authorized certain things, production did not slow down. That's for sure, and that's a problem, too. I don't want to "turn this around" and pretend employees can't be pains in the ass, too. But with colleagues, I had no huge expectations, but once you feel like the only adult in a conversation with your boss or even the boss of their boss, and they cede the ground though while saving face to themselves, it just gets impossible to take the place seriously on anything but a "personal" professional level. That is, I learned for myself, and I tried to do good work in a shit situation even though it couldn't possibly keep the company from tanking, but I could not get into any mindset of honestly coming up with ideas on how to fix the company. I expect those who have been there before me, get paid more, supposedly know more and have more authority, to at least give it an earnest shot, too, and I wasn't seeing that. They all just had excuses and slogans and "that's how we do things around here". Only half of the promised things ever happened, but there was always plenty of marketing material for it in advance. But I know I and they had harsh teachers. Several of them grew up in the GDR, one of those had an officer for a father. So not an "A for effort" mentality, but still not honest. So I both disagree and agree on that point. I think it just starts with adults trying to answer the questions of kids that are uncomfortable to them honestly, instead of blaming the kids for coming up with questions they should be asking, too. It would do both them and their kids good, and 20 years later who knows what becomes possible.
hosh 9y ago
That is exactly the subject of the book, Crucial Conversations. They talk about the Fool's Choice, the false dichotomy of speaking truth (and holding someone accountable) while having a good relationship. It is possible to do both and the book has specific tools to get to that. The little bit I am applying is working well -- better than what has been happening before. You can find a wiki summary of the book and see if it helps.

csydas 9y ago

While I appreciate your agreement, I disagree with the reasoning - I don't think it has anything to do with that (and you can check my comments to see that I don't even think that "issue" is all that much of an issue in and of itself [1]) Instead, I think it's just a bad mixture of arrogance and antiquated power relationships in the modern workplace. Especially with technology, the age difference between any given two employees can be pretty drastic in either direction; with two peers, this typically isn't much of a problem, but when you have a manager/employee relationship, this can strain the relationship if both sides aren't willing to get outside of their comfort zones a little. Some of my most difficult colleagues and employees were people who were older than me, or thought they were (I look much younger than I actually am), who felt they could just ignore me because of my age. (or theirs, same result if for different reasons) And for sure, they took being wrong very hard, especially if I were the one to disagree and explain why. Similarly, the love of having a social status quo makes it very difficult to enact change in people via any confrontation. People aren't just resistant to change they themselves aren't trying to enact, they're hostile towards it. The countless games I've seen played where poor programmers had to convince their bosses that a project was actually the boss' idea are simply ludicrous, but it's the only way in these environments that such projects were able to happen. When a team works well together, it's because of mutual respect - the best teams I've been in, despite drastic differences in age, politics, and philosophies, everyone got along well professionally and respected each other's domains, challenging appropriately, but also conceding when appropriately. It's when people start digging their heels in and insisting that they've conceded enough or let pride get in the way that we get stories like you mentioned or like the author is describing. It takes a lot of maturity to quiet the part of you that wants to fight every criticism simply due to the fact that it's a criticism; it's that impulsive response, plus the above reasons, that people have such issues. (Of course, all my opinion and experience, your mileage may vary) [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14485882 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14485882

thinkfurther 9y ago

> but suggested I adjust my "tone" to avoid embarrassing them. Oh, I know this so well, but also from incompetent superiors. Not giving you an example of what would be a better tone, but just vague things like that. Of course, if I'm not a bit late too often, or something obvious like that, I don't need a tutorial on how to get out of bed in time. "Ahem, cut it out" is enough there. But in other cases, it really felt like they were bluffing, and I realized I really need to leave ASAP when I could actually call the bluff and leave them standing. E.g. boss comes up because they think I've been taking too long on task X, which they know fuck all about, proudly so ("I don't need to know that"). They stand next to me, ask if I need help which translated to "why are you still doing this", I roll my eyes (NOT because my feelings were hurt, really just because I was doing my very best, and because I knew I was doing better works than their "metrics glasses" allowed them to see) and say "should I explain what I'm doing? that'll just take more time but okay" and they'd be like "oh okay, I was just saying". In a way, that was funny, in another totally unacceptable. Even more than clowning around in school, I wanted teachers I can respect. Even more than slacking off at work, I want to get shit done and get supported in doing it. If I'm doing something wrong, I want to be told what it is, in concrete terms. Because otherwise, I'm suspecting you don't even know, and that I should have your job. Roughly speaking. I certainly met a fair share of people who hardly worked because they were higher in the hierarchy. They were sweating because they constantly had to pretend to know what they're doing, not because they worked so hard. Not that I wanted their job, but when they were sick nothing changed on the ground floor other than who stamped or authorized certain things, production did not slow down. That's for sure, and that's a problem, too. I don't want to "turn this around" and pretend employees can't be pains in the ass, too. But with colleagues, I had no huge expectations, but once you feel like the only adult in a conversation with your boss or even the boss of their boss, and they cede the ground though while saving face to themselves, it just gets impossible to take the place seriously on anything but a "personal" professional level. That is, I learned for myself, and I tried to do good work in a shit situation even though it couldn't possibly keep the company from tanking, but I could not get into any mindset of honestly coming up with ideas on how to fix the company. I expect those who have been there before me, get paid more, supposedly know more and have more authority, to at least give it an earnest shot, too, and I wasn't seeing that. They all just had excuses and slogans and "that's how we do things around here". Only half of the promised things ever happened, but there was always plenty of marketing material for it in advance. But I know I and they had harsh teachers. Several of them grew up in the GDR, one of those had an officer for a father. So not an "A for effort" mentality, but still not honest. So I both disagree and agree on that point. I think it just starts with adults trying to answer the questions of kids that are uncomfortable to them honestly, instead of blaming the kids for coming up with questions they should be asking, too. It would do both them and their kids good, and 20 years later who knows what becomes possible.

hosh 9y ago

That is exactly the subject of the book, Crucial Conversations. They talk about the Fool's Choice, the false dichotomy of speaking truth (and holding someone accountable) while having a good relationship. It is possible to do both and the book has specific tools to get to that. The little bit I am applying is working well -- better than what has been happening before. You can find a wiki summary of the book and see if it helps.