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> The purpose of concentration camps is to not kill people. I agree with this even more than you do. If my understanding of history is correct, the Nazis, who

by JadeNB 9y ago

> The purpose of concentration camps is to not kill people. I agree with this even more than you do. If my understanding of history is correct, the Nazis, whom you single out as an exception, weren't so from the beginning. This: > Most mass killing simply consists of taking groups of people somewhere remote and shooting them. was what they did with their 'undesireables' for a long time, too; and, as you point out: > Concentration camps are what you do when you don't want to do that and are basically a cheap form of prison. I think that they originally intended their concentration camps as a marshalling point for future deportation, and (later?) a source of slave labour. It was only at the Wannsee Conference in 1942, I think, that they decided to turn some concentration camps into extermination camps. (Indeed, one could make the point that your statement is true by definition; a camp intended for killing ceases to be, or just to be, a concentration camp. However, probably this sort of semantic quibble is not what you meant.)

dTal 9y ago
Your history is not quite correct, although the timeline of how they eased themselves into it makes for insightful reading. While the Wannsee Conference made it official, the "final solution" grew organically out of the pre-existing "Action T4" "euthanasia" program - the first mass gassings were actually in October 1939. The systematic extermination of Jews began in June 1941 during the invasion of the Soviet Union, beginning with Jews in political positions but rapidly expanding to include all male Jews, then all Jews. By November 1941, three months before the conference, the construction of Bełżec (conceived from the start as a dedicated extermination camp) had already begun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_VII https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_VII https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be%C5%82%C5%BCec_extermination_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be%C5%82%C5%BCec_extermination...
- JadeNB 9y ago
  Thank you for the background. Please forgive my asking for further clarification; I'm not arguing, just trying to come to an accurate understanding. The linked article says: > [the Nazi concentration camps] became part of the genocide of the Jews only late in the war; for most of the period of the Third Reich, the camp system was separate from the ‘war against the Jews’ and the extermination camps were not part of the regular concentration camp system. Is this a wrong statement that conflicts with what you are saying, or a right statement, carefully worded (initially, extermination camps were separate from concentration camps), that I overgeneralised to a wrong conclusion (initially, there were no extermination camps for Jews)? As horrifying as it is, I can't seem to read enough on the fascinating but ghoulish history of this period. The linked article cites Wachsmann's KL, which I have not yet read. Do you think that is a good reference, and/or do you know of any (other) good reference?

by JadeNB 9y ago

dTal 9y ago

Your history is not quite correct, although the timeline of how they eased themselves into it makes for insightful reading. While the Wannsee Conference made it official, the "final solution" grew organically out of the pre-existing "Action T4" "euthanasia" program - the first mass gassings were actually in October 1939. The systematic extermination of Jews began in June 1941 during the invasion of the Soviet Union, beginning with Jews in political positions but rapidly expanding to include all male Jews, then all Jews. By November 1941, three months before the conference, the construction of Bełżec (conceived from the start as a dedicated extermination camp) had already begun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_VII https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_VII https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be%C5%82%C5%BCec_extermination_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be%C5%82%C5%BCec_extermination...

JadeNB 9y ago
Thank you for the background. Please forgive my asking for further clarification; I'm not arguing, just trying to come to an accurate understanding. The linked article says: > [the Nazi concentration camps] became part of the genocide of the Jews only late in the war; for most of the period of the Third Reich, the camp system was separate from the ‘war against the Jews’ and the extermination camps were not part of the regular concentration camp system. Is this a wrong statement that conflicts with what you are saying, or a right statement, carefully worded (initially, extermination camps were separate from concentration camps), that I overgeneralised to a wrong conclusion (initially, there were no extermination camps for Jews)? As horrifying as it is, I can't seem to read enough on the fascinating but ghoulish history of this period. The linked article cites Wachsmann's KL, which I have not yet read. Do you think that is a good reference, and/or do you know of any (other) good reference?