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I think that is a somewhat cynical view of the matter; I appreciate that "American Work Ethics" are highly flawed and mostly theatrics (I say this as an America

by csydas 9y ago

I think that is a somewhat cynical view of the matter; I appreciate that "American Work Ethics" are highly flawed and mostly theatrics (I say this as an American expat who has experienced work from all over the globe), but as much as there is management theatrics in the US, there's also a lot of "woe is me" from employees when they're disciplined. I'd really hate to see how the author of the piece would have reacted to the Russian Managers at the company I'm with at the moment, as the managers certainly don't sugar coat when they're unhappy; it's not abusive, it's just very to the point. Having been a manager when I still worked in the US, it was incredibly difficult to correct inappropriate behavior because virtually every time you did, you did it wrong to whoever you were correcting. Try to be gentle? You were unclear. Try to be polite but to the point? You were curt. This sort of dance suggests to me that we just don't handle criticism well professionally in the US. I'm sure this is just observer bias, but I see a tendency to avoid confrontation at any cost, with too many places hoping it just "works out". I do think it's from both sides of the employer/employee line. I have been at places that were more interested in just removing people who had some bad habits or needed to have a line drawn for some behavior while otherwise being model employees. I have also seen employees who were absolutely resistant to any criticism for a multitude of reasons, and ultimately the just continued with bad behavior until they were fired or left the company out of frustration with the constant meetings. The author touches on some very true feelings in the article - no one likes being reprimanded. It's harsh, it's embarrassing, and it saps your ego for many reasons. But like others have commented, I do think that they acted unprofessionally - I imagine the story would have been much different had the author simply PM's a manager or boss "hey, family issue, going to be incognito today, I'll try to get an update by X" or just anything to keep them in the loop. The author also seemed unaware of the expectations of their bosses before hand, so maybe that's the fault of the company or the fault of the author. The age disparity I appreciate the uncomfortableness of, but it's going to be something that is more and more of a reality. (Ageism in tech is very real, so not discounting that, but the reality of the world is that there are going to be many young tech managers; staying out of management is great, but it needs to come with the understanding that eventually you'll be older than your bosses on average).

cloakandswagger 9y ago
Unfortunately it seems that the same smiley, inoffensive, A-for-effort mentality that exists in our school system has fully invaded the corporate world. I experienced this personally after talking to a report about their absenteeism. Within a day I received a lengthy email from them complaining about my directness. That 30 second exchange was escalated to management; they agreed that my feedback was justified (the employee in question had missed our team's only recurring meeting for the past month) but suggested I adjust my "tone" to avoid embarrassing them. I can't help but see similarities when I read this article. Speak directly to someone and they'll get their feelings hurt. Sugarcoat it and they'll claim that you weren't clear enough. Casually hint at the issue and they'll claim you were passive aggressive. Something is fundamentally wrong with an environment where adults can't have honest and direct interaction for fear of hurting someone's feelings.
- csydas 9y ago
  While I appreciate your agreement, I disagree with the reasoning - I don't think it has anything to do with that (and you can check my comments to see that I don't even think that "issue" is all that much of an issue in and of itself [1]) Instead, I think it's just a bad mixture of arrogance and antiquated power relationships in the modern workplace. Especially with technology, the age difference between any given two employees can be pretty drastic in either direction; with two peers, this typically isn't much of a problem, but when you have a manager/employee relationship, this can strain the relationship if both sides aren't willing to get outside of their comfort zones a little. Some of my most difficult colleagues and employees were people who were older than me, or thought they were (I look much younger than I actually am), who felt they could just ignore me because of my age. (or theirs, same result if for different reasons) And for sure, they took being wrong very hard, especially if I were the one to disagree and explain why. Similarly, the love of having a social status quo makes it very difficult to enact change in people via any confrontation. People aren't just resistant to change they themselves aren't trying to enact, they're hostile towards it. The countless games I've seen played where poor programmers had to convince their bosses that a project was actually the boss' idea are simply ludicrous, but it's the only way in these environments that such projects were able to happen. When a team works well together, it's because of mutual respect - the best teams I've been in, despite drastic differences in age, politics, and philosophies, everyone got along well professionally and respected each other's domains, challenging appropriately, but also conceding when appropriately. It's when people start digging their heels in and insisting that they've conceded enough or let pride get in the way that we get stories like you mentioned or like the author is describing. It takes a lot of maturity to quiet the part of you that wants to fight every criticism simply due to the fact that it's a criticism; it's that impulsive response, plus the above reasons, that people have such issues. (Of course, all my opinion and experience, your mileage may vary) [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14485882 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14485882

by csydas 9y ago

cloakandswagger 9y ago

Unfortunately it seems that the same smiley, inoffensive, A-for-effort mentality that exists in our school system has fully invaded the corporate world. I experienced this personally after talking to a report about their absenteeism. Within a day I received a lengthy email from them complaining about my directness. That 30 second exchange was escalated to management; they agreed that my feedback was justified (the employee in question had missed our team's only recurring meeting for the past month) but suggested I adjust my "tone" to avoid embarrassing them. I can't help but see similarities when I read this article. Speak directly to someone and they'll get their feelings hurt. Sugarcoat it and they'll claim that you weren't clear enough. Casually hint at the issue and they'll claim you were passive aggressive. Something is fundamentally wrong with an environment where adults can't have honest and direct interaction for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

csydas 9y ago
While I appreciate your agreement, I disagree with the reasoning - I don't think it has anything to do with that (and you can check my comments to see that I don't even think that "issue" is all that much of an issue in and of itself [1]) Instead, I think it's just a bad mixture of arrogance and antiquated power relationships in the modern workplace. Especially with technology, the age difference between any given two employees can be pretty drastic in either direction; with two peers, this typically isn't much of a problem, but when you have a manager/employee relationship, this can strain the relationship if both sides aren't willing to get outside of their comfort zones a little. Some of my most difficult colleagues and employees were people who were older than me, or thought they were (I look much younger than I actually am), who felt they could just ignore me because of my age. (or theirs, same result if for different reasons) And for sure, they took being wrong very hard, especially if I were the one to disagree and explain why. Similarly, the love of having a social status quo makes it very difficult to enact change in people via any confrontation. People aren't just resistant to change they themselves aren't trying to enact, they're hostile towards it. The countless games I've seen played where poor programmers had to convince their bosses that a project was actually the boss' idea are simply ludicrous, but it's the only way in these environments that such projects were able to happen. When a team works well together, it's because of mutual respect - the best teams I've been in, despite drastic differences in age, politics, and philosophies, everyone got along well professionally and respected each other's domains, challenging appropriately, but also conceding when appropriately. It's when people start digging their heels in and insisting that they've conceded enough or let pride get in the way that we get stories like you mentioned or like the author is describing. It takes a lot of maturity to quiet the part of you that wants to fight every criticism simply due to the fact that it's a criticism; it's that impulsive response, plus the above reasons, that people have such issues. (Of course, all my opinion and experience, your mileage may vary) [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14485882 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14485882