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That is not even close to the core issue. The core issue is that the Chinese government locked someone up for stating an opinion. An opinion not much different

That is not even close to the core issue. The core issue is that the Chinese government locked someone up for stating an opinion. An opinion not much different in substance than then ones you are stating in this thread. Would you consider it just for you to be imprisoned for your views alone? I would not, and I think that is also true for other people.

dis-sys 9y ago
he is not jailed for stating that view. the reason for this lock up can be easily searched online.
- pavlov 9y ago
  Why don't you provide a credible source? "Just google for it" is generally what people say to support arguments based on conspiracy theories.
  - ideal0227 9y ago
    Since that is a well known issue about him. No one thinks it is conspiracy theory. If you want to discuss about Liu, I assume you should do some homework first?
  - dis-sys 9y ago
    what I said is something well known, widely reported - he got jailed for a completely different matter. if you couldn't bother to even search for that, what is the point joining the discussion? let me know if google.com is too hard for you to use.
    - pavlov 9y ago
      You're clearly trying to seed doubt about why Liu was sentenced to 11 years in prison. He was condemned for "subversion", a vaguely defined crime that doesn't exist in democracies, but has been a popular legal tool in dictatorships.
      - ideal0227 9y ago
        eh... Liu was not sentenced due to this <三百年殖民地。香港一百年殖民地变成今天这样，中国那么大，当然需要三百年殖民地，才会变成今天香港这样，三百年够不够，我还有怀疑。> And, yes, what you just described is also well known. No one in this thread said Liu should be sentenced. And no one in this thread said they agree with what Chinese gov did. What we suggest is that some of Liu's opinions are not acceptable by Chinese people. And he is not well respected as people might think. Some facts are provided in this thread.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
ideal0227 9y ago
There are two core issues: 1. Liu is not acceptable by a lot of Chinese people due to his aggressive words on colonial and slavers. 2. Liu was sentenced by the gov due to "subversion". So to judge Liu, we have to look from at least two different angles, not just "he was sentenced". Few people thinks 2 is right. I, personally, do not agree on 2 too. And I am now thinking why most people outside China only know about 2 when they try to judge about Liu?
- literallycancer 9y ago
  Freedom of speech isn't such a hard concept to understand. Even if you disagree with someone, you don't put them in prison.
  - echaozh 9y ago
    Hmm, if Trump speaks for the Russian, persuading the Americans that the US should be colonized by the Russians for 300 years, would you think he should be free doing his presidential business? Especially after he (for example's sake) got awarded some Russian prizes? If he only expresses some views of his, it's probably OK if he's not influential. If he got awarded some prize that's important worldwide and sometimes awarded to POTUS, well, it's totally a different thing.
    - jaggederest 9y ago
      Would I think it was good? No. Would that alone be enough that I would ask him to be imprisoned? Never. You're confusing a dislike of his opinions for justification for jailing him, yet again.
  - dis-sys 9y ago
    This has been repeatedly explained: he was not jailed for what he said. His very offensive comments should not get him jailed but with those words in mind, do you think he deserve the nobel peace prize? If you are interested in how he was jailed, search google, there are tons of articles there.
jdietrich 9y ago
>Would you consider it just for you to be imprisoned for your views alone? In most western democracies, you can be imprisoned for a multitude of "thought crimes" - denying the holocaust, inciting racial or religious hatred, encouraging acts of terrorism etc. The US has uniquely strong protections for free speech, but even there I expect that many people would support a ban on certain kinds of speech. How many Fox News viewers believe that jihadi preachers should be locked up? How many New York Times readers believe that white supremacists should be locked up?
echaozh 9y ago
Would you consider it just for Snowden to be exiled out of the country? Would you consider it just for Assange to be under house arrest in an Embassy? Would you consider it just for Liu Xiaobo to be under house arrest at his own home? Well, IMHO, all 3 incidents are unjust. However, they all happened. Interestingly, Liu Xiaobo earned a Nobel price, but Snowden didn't. Not sure what would happen if the Chinese government awarded Snowden or Assange some special prizes.
- jaggederest 9y ago
  I agree with you on all those fronts. All three should be free, without harassment.
- pavlov 9y ago
  The difference is this: Assange and Snowden exposed state secrets. If Liu had done that, he would have been executed a long time ago. I don't agree with Snowden's treatment either, but it's important not to confuse freedom of speech with dissemination of confidential information.
- xupybd 9y ago
  Remember Assange is wanted for sexual assault and probably should face the sexual assault charges. But it's not realistic that he could do without facing charges related to wikileaks.

dis-sys 9y ago

he is not jailed for stating that view. the reason for this lock up can be easily searched online.

pavlov 9y ago
Why don't you provide a credible source? "Just google for it" is generally what people say to support arguments based on conspiracy theories.
- ideal0227 9y ago
  Since that is a well known issue about him. No one thinks it is conspiracy theory. If you want to discuss about Liu, I assume you should do some homework first?
- dis-sys 9y ago
  what I said is something well known, widely reported - he got jailed for a completely different matter. if you couldn't bother to even search for that, what is the point joining the discussion? let me know if google.com is too hard for you to use.
  - pavlov 9y ago
    You're clearly trying to seed doubt about why Liu was sentenced to 11 years in prison. He was condemned for "subversion", a vaguely defined crime that doesn't exist in democracies, but has been a popular legal tool in dictatorships.
    - ideal0227 9y ago
      eh... Liu was not sentenced due to this <三百年殖民地。香港一百年殖民地变成今天这样，中国那么大，当然需要三百年殖民地，才会变成今天香港这样，三百年够不够，我还有怀疑。> And, yes, what you just described is also well known. No one in this thread said Liu should be sentenced. And no one in this thread said they agree with what Chinese gov did. What we suggest is that some of Liu's opinions are not acceptable by Chinese people. And he is not well respected as people might think. Some facts are provided in this thread.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]

ideal0227 9y ago

There are two core issues: 1. Liu is not acceptable by a lot of Chinese people due to his aggressive words on colonial and slavers. 2. Liu was sentenced by the gov due to "subversion". So to judge Liu, we have to look from at least two different angles, not just "he was sentenced". Few people thinks 2 is right. I, personally, do not agree on 2 too. And I am now thinking why most people outside China only know about 2 when they try to judge about Liu?

literallycancer 9y ago
Freedom of speech isn't such a hard concept to understand. Even if you disagree with someone, you don't put them in prison.
- echaozh 9y ago
  Hmm, if Trump speaks for the Russian, persuading the Americans that the US should be colonized by the Russians for 300 years, would you think he should be free doing his presidential business? Especially after he (for example's sake) got awarded some Russian prizes? If he only expresses some views of his, it's probably OK if he's not influential. If he got awarded some prize that's important worldwide and sometimes awarded to POTUS, well, it's totally a different thing.
  - jaggederest 9y ago
    Would I think it was good? No. Would that alone be enough that I would ask him to be imprisoned? Never. You're confusing a dislike of his opinions for justification for jailing him, yet again.
- dis-sys 9y ago
  This has been repeatedly explained: he was not jailed for what he said. His very offensive comments should not get him jailed but with those words in mind, do you think he deserve the nobel peace prize? If you are interested in how he was jailed, search google, there are tons of articles there.

jdietrich 9y ago

>Would you consider it just for you to be imprisoned for your views alone? In most western democracies, you can be imprisoned for a multitude of "thought crimes" - denying the holocaust, inciting racial or religious hatred, encouraging acts of terrorism etc. The US has uniquely strong protections for free speech, but even there I expect that many people would support a ban on certain kinds of speech. How many Fox News viewers believe that jihadi preachers should be locked up? How many New York Times readers believe that white supremacists should be locked up?

echaozh 9y ago

Would you consider it just for Snowden to be exiled out of the country? Would you consider it just for Assange to be under house arrest in an Embassy? Would you consider it just for Liu Xiaobo to be under house arrest at his own home? Well, IMHO, all 3 incidents are unjust. However, they all happened. Interestingly, Liu Xiaobo earned a Nobel price, but Snowden didn't. Not sure what would happen if the Chinese government awarded Snowden or Assange some special prizes.

jaggederest 9y ago
I agree with you on all those fronts. All three should be free, without harassment.
pavlov 9y ago
The difference is this: Assange and Snowden exposed state secrets. If Liu had done that, he would have been executed a long time ago. I don't agree with Snowden's treatment either, but it's important not to confuse freedom of speech with dissemination of confidential information.
xupybd 9y ago
Remember Assange is wanted for sexual assault and probably should face the sexual assault charges. But it's not realistic that he could do without facing charges related to wikileaks.