8 ms·

VISA offers restaurants $10,000 to stop accepting cash

60 points by lando2319 9y ago

posguy 9y ago
A cashless society in the United States would be quite a surprise. With the pain that prepaid cards are to use and reload for those that aren't well heeled, combined with the pure, unbridled hatred that businesses have for the merchant services industry in general, it will be a long time before cash is not encouraged as a form of payment at most businesses.
- eterm 9y ago
  Meanwhile in the UK card transactions overtook cash transactions not just in volume (this has been true for a long time) but in actual transaction counts last month.
  - russell_h 9y ago
    I'm not sure which way you mean this, but I'd be surprised if less than 80% of transactions in the US were on a credit or debit card (though I'd love to see real numbers, my anecdotal observation is surely biased).
    - eterm 9y ago
      I would wager you are an outlier at 80%, although I can't find published US statistics of these numbers. Small transactions such as buying a stick of gum or a newspaper inflate the transaction counts at the low end.
- kayoone 9y ago
  Meanwhile in Germany I feel we are a decade behind the US when it comes to accepting electronic payments. In Berlin there are so many Bars/restaurants that are "cash only" when the next ATM (that is a partner of your bank, otherwise you pay a 5 EUR fee to withdraw) is blocks away... It's beyond annoying
  - posguy 9y ago
    Cash in most cases is better for the business, hence why its so popular.
    - thg 9y ago
      Cash is the only unrestricted currency in Germany. Law demands that they have to accept it.
      - germanier 9y ago
        No, law does not demand that. You have to accept it to settle existing debt but that's it. For new customers you can demand any payment method you want. If they don't like it they are free to not form a contract. A cashless restaurant would be legal. They are just rare because of customer preference. But just look at online shops: they generally don't allow you to pay cash.
        thg 9y ago
        https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bbankg/__14.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bbankg/__14.html "Auf Euro lautende Banknoten sind das einzige unbeschränkte gesetzliche Zahlungsmittel." Online shops allow you to pay cash through payment on delivery (Nachnahme).
        germanier 9y ago
        As I said, this law does not mean that you have to accept cash for every transaction. It is often repeated but that does not make it true. Requiring a specific form of payment is well within the freedom of contract. And Nachname is not offered by every shop, probably not even the majority. If it's offered the usually for a steep surcharge. And while we are at it: Try paying your car tax in cash to the government and you will find it to be absolutely impossible.
  - jsilence 9y ago
    And I think that is a good thing.
- shoo 9y ago
  meanwhile, AU: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-27/is-australia-on-the-brink-of-becoming-cashless-society/8377288 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-27/is-australia-on-the-br...
- monochromatic 9y ago
  Cash is (still) king.
Frondo 9y ago
Man, when I read about how the swipe fees for credit cards remain so high (3%!!), even decades after the infrastructure's been built out and can chug along in maintenance mode, I just think.. where's the market solution to this? Where's the upstart processor that charges 1%, still make bank because it's just 1s and 0s now, and exert real competitive pressure on Visa and MC?
- omarchowdhury 9y ago
  Charging 1% for existing payment network card transactions would put them out of business real fast when the wholesale cost to processors is more than 1%.
  - myroon5 9y ago
    Do you have a source for this?
    - omarchowdhury 9y ago
      https://usa.visa.com/content/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/visa-usa-interchange-reimbursement-fees.pdf https://usa.visa.com/content/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/vis...
  - mrep 9y ago
    Those costs are only so high because of reward systems that pay credit card users for purchases. Get rid of all of the rewards and 1% is easily enough to cover transaction costs.
  - snovv_crash 9y ago
    Then how do they operate in the EU, where the fees are capped at 0.3%?
- myroon5 9y ago
  Those who pay the fees (merchants) aren't the ones who chose which cards their customers have. High fees also seem to allow high rewards to draw more consumers. I think it would be difficult to challenge Visa and MC just by undercutting them. It seems that regulatory action is the most likely thing to break Visa and MC's dominance.
raverbashing 9y ago
> Big interchange fees enable credit card companies to offer sweet rewards to big-spending consumers and get paid by the banks that issue the cards—at the expense of small businesses and customers. > Swipe fees at a cafe become part of the price of a cup of coffee, principally to the detriment of cash customers and “vanilla” cardholders who aren’t earning airline miles when they get their caffeine fix. And that's why I avoid card transactions at "Mom & Pop" stores Yes, It's good to remember those "cashbacks" and miles are not free, they came from somewhere
- viraptor 9y ago
  I'm assuming that all the stores for which accepting card payment makes a difference already adjusted their prices (in one way or another) to cover it. By using cash you're just paying more to offset the card fees. A lot of small places I know tell you to pay the card fee extra instead - and that's a pretty cool solution. The card fees are not the main source of income as far as I understand: it's the interest and other fees that really bring in the big money.
mrep 9y ago
$10,000 / 30 cent transaction fee comes out to a net positive for the credit card companies after 33,334 transactions (not included the average 3% additional fee). If we assume a modest 100 credit card transactions per day for high transaction industries like restaurants and food trucks, the 30 cent fee will return the $10,000 of revenue in 333 days not including the percentage fee. There is a reason restaurants/food trucks/gas stations... charge an extra fee for using credit cards on transactions below a certain price. It's cause credit card companies charge an arm and a leg for each transaction.
- anon4728 9y ago
  Cash is king. Always has, always will. Only cryptocurrencies will be the future, bypassing these artificial, predatory-lending, extortion, usuary monopolies.
blackguardx 9y ago
$10,000 is only about one year of credit card transaction fees at $500,000 in revenue per year. There is a cash only brewpub chain in Colorado (Mountain Sun) that easily pulls in millions per year. Everyone complains about it being cash only, but the places are so packed that it is a no brainer for the owner. 2% is big bite, especially in the restaurant business.
lngnmn 9y ago
Anti-monopoly and human rights guys should perhaps take a look into this.
kijin 9y ago
Is this even legal? Cash is legal tender for all debts, public and private. Whenever I order food and services at a real restaurant (not a fast-food joint where I must pay up front), I incur a debt with the expectation that I will settle it as I leave. Can the restaurant legally refuse to accept cash as settlement for my debt, as long as I'm not using cash in a blatantly unreasonable way such as paying $250 in dollar bills?
- techsupporter 9y ago
  If they tell you up front, "no cash," before you order, you are free to walk away and the merchant is under no obligation to enter into the transaction with you.
- vmarsy 9y ago
  It seems that it would not be legal, unless announced upfront : http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/watchdog/2014/12/24/ask-watchdog-can-business-refuse-cash/20883777/ http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/watchdog/2014/12/24/as...
petters 9y ago
But isn't cash legal tender in the US? If you have just eaten at restaurant, you have a debt to it. I thought they had to accept cash then?
- enkid 9y ago
  Swipe before you buy or they refuse service.
  - AckSyn 9y ago
    I've been to many reataraunts that are like this. It's not uncommon.
sandGorgon 9y ago
For those who are interested in these kind of things, you should check out UPI API built by the government of India. With a singular goal - to kill Visa and MasterCard and make digital payments free in India. The ultimate goal is to tax on consumption - tax payer base in the world's fastest growing economy is abysmally small. So the economists kind of gave up there and leapfrogged into building a digital economy : make all transactions free and charge GST on consumption. The API is brilliant - recurring charges, refunds, text message payments, etc - basically all the venture funded startups in the US are all free in India.
- vit05 9y ago
  That looks really interesting. But, the government will hold a lot of information about their citizen, how they will use that? I do not know if something like this could be replicated in every country.
  - sanxiyn 9y ago
    The government already holds a lot of information about their citizen. I think this worry is particularly American and not shared by most people. You ask, how they will use that? They don't much use what they already have, so the best guess is that there will be no use. Which is pity, since it can be used for a lot of good. But I guess you would say it is lucky, since it can be used for a lot of bad.
    - mkagenius 9y ago
      > But I guess you would say it is lucky, since it can be used for a lot of bad. "whatever can be used for bad will be used for bad" - murphy's law
  - cperciva 9y ago
    the government will hold a lot of information about their citizen, how they will use that? Exactly the way they've already announced that they'll use it: To collect tax.
  - 9y ago
excalibur 9y ago
This. Note. Is. Legal. Tender. For. All. Debts. Public. And. Private. Which of these words does Visa not understand?
- kobeya 9y ago
  That's not legally binding.
- techsupporter 9y ago
  There are many flaws with your absolutism here, starting with our government system not being one of absolutes. In this instance, no debt is created before a transaction. As long as the merchant states up front, "no cash," you are free to walk away if all you have is cash.
  - excalibur 9y ago
    On the contrary, the government happens to be full of Sith.
- scintill76 9y ago
  As someone else in this thread noted, they can just not give you stuff until you've paid by card. Then you do not have a debt, so legal tender doesn't apply.
- Godel_unicode 9y ago
  That phrase doesn't mean what you think it means. Allowed to use it =/= must be accepted. Edit: here are the Feds words. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm
- Sleeep 9y ago
  It's actually you who doesn't understand. There's already thousands of businesses where your dollar bills are unwelcome (try sending an envelope full of $100s to Amazon for your next order if you don't believe me). https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages... >The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." >This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.
Animats 9y ago
This will slow things down at some places such as 7-11 and Starbucks. It bugs me when I'm in line behind someone using a credit card and an affinity card. There's all this waiting, and pointing and clicking, and signing. Plus the additional delays caused by cloud-hosted point of sale systems. A cash sale takes about ten seconds.
- awjr 9y ago
  These days in the UK you simply touch your card to the reader, no PIN, no signature. It is definitely quicker than cash. Only works for under £30, above that value you have to put your PIN in.
  - tomfitz 9y ago
    Same in other parts of Europe, Australia, and New Zealand
  - viraptor 9y ago
    > Only works for under £30 This is set by the bank. In most cases you can adjust the limit. I remember Lloyds allowed you to do that.
- viraptor 9y ago
  I'll be the non-US person to point it out this time: This is a US problem, not a credit card problem. In Oz, I've got both the store card and the credit card on my phone. The first gets scanned while the items are being processed. The second gets touched at the end and takes max 5 seconds till "approved". In the UK it's even faster. Even that would be faster if the shop moved to the "insert cash or card, or select cashback amount" method popular in the UK rather than having to tap "card", "no cashback", "full amount" first (Oz / coles) Actually, for the fastest system I know, see London Underground. For a while now you can tap your credit card instead of the usual Oyster and you'll get close to immediate access.
- cperciva 9y ago
  There's all this waiting, and pointing and clicking, and signing. Ok, I agree that it's a bit annoying when I have to wait a few seconds before the terminal will allow me to tap, but it's wait, what, signing? In all seriousness, the problem you're describing is archaic terminals. Here in Canada I can't remember the last time I signed for a credit card transaction; I very rarely even have to enter my PIN. And it's much faster than paying cash.
snakeanus 9y ago
I would prefer it if restaurants started accepting cryptocurrencies. I don't really enjoy the fact that paying with a credit card lets both visa and my bank to know where I eat. Not to mention that credit cards are a giant pain in general, "this transaction was declined".
- kartan 9y ago
  > I would prefer it if restaurants started accepting cryptocurrencies. That's a completely different problem with completely different implications. Doesn't matter if you pay with cash or credit card, dollars are still dollars and are regulated by the Federal Reserve. To change to cryoptocurrencies is to leave the dollar. So it is not about how you transfer money, but about which currency you work with.
kartan 9y ago
I live in Sweden, and this is very common. Handling cash is inefficient for everyone involved. The big downside is that people that didn't adapted , usually older citizens, find themselves in a worse situation. This is still more obvious in situations like the buses where you can't even buy a ticket as you need to buy it in advance. If you don't have one, you need to buy the ticket on your mobile device, and this is not easy for everyone in society. So it is mostly a good thing, with more efficient transactions, but it is not heaven.
jaclaz 9y ago
Similar discussion/topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14755034 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14755034
Jazgot 9y ago
This is bribe, and should be treated like this.
- anon4728 9y ago
  In some jurisdictions it might even be illegal.
anon4728 9y ago
VISA wants an indebted populace beholden only to them... tracked, monetized, monopolized, lacking in all privacy and stuffed with fees. I will boycott all such restaurants, and you should too. It's a fools move to accept such an offer. Plus, waiters will walk out.
marak830 9y ago
For those interested from an executive chef. 10k? That's a shitty deal for the restaurant. You have two things off the top of my head that are working against that: a) cash sales are easy. Really, if it's a small purchase they will prefer to buy I cash. B)if it's a large purchase that the customer wants to pay in cash, (and assuming the restaurant does a lot of large tables/bookings), they can delete it from the system and avoid tax. B) sounds shit I know, but it happens. I have seen it on multiple continents, over my professional life (17 years atm). So what is 10k with a. 2-5% charge? A drop in the water. Restaurants run on(best case) 25% costing. To put this into context the way we are taught is: 33% cost worst case. 33 food, 33 labour and overhead, 33 profit. Never works out like that (in a bad way), but that's your base. Execitutuce chef's aim doe 25% to cover the losses in the other sectors(overstaff etc). So a standard non-chain restaurant that charges $15 for a meal is looking at $5 "profit" worst case per meal. If they are running at peak at all times with no downtime or overbook or refund due to screw up. Which is great. Would be lovely. Never happens that way though. Not every day is busy, and people don't book(allowing restaurants to staff up). Skipping all the intermediate parts, what little profit they make a cc takes a percentile off the top. Doesn't seem like much to most people but for an indiatey that knife edge, those cc charges can add up.

60 points by lando2319 9y ago

A cashless society in the United States would be quite a surprise. With the pain that prepaid cards are to use and reload for those that aren't well heeled, combined with the pure, unbridled hatred that businesses have for the merchant services industry in general, it will be a long time before cash is not encouraged as a form of payment at most businesses.

eterm 9y ago
Meanwhile in the UK card transactions overtook cash transactions not just in volume (this has been true for a long time) but in actual transaction counts last month.
- russell_h 9y ago
  I'm not sure which way you mean this, but I'd be surprised if less than 80% of transactions in the US were on a credit or debit card (though I'd love to see real numbers, my anecdotal observation is surely biased).
  - eterm 9y ago
    I would wager you are an outlier at 80%, although I can't find published US statistics of these numbers. Small transactions such as buying a stick of gum or a newspaper inflate the transaction counts at the low end.
kayoone 9y ago
Meanwhile in Germany I feel we are a decade behind the US when it comes to accepting electronic payments. In Berlin there are so many Bars/restaurants that are "cash only" when the next ATM (that is a partner of your bank, otherwise you pay a 5 EUR fee to withdraw) is blocks away... It's beyond annoying
- posguy 9y ago
  Cash in most cases is better for the business, hence why its so popular.
  - thg 9y ago
    Cash is the only unrestricted currency in Germany. Law demands that they have to accept it.
    - germanier 9y ago
      No, law does not demand that. You have to accept it to settle existing debt but that's it. For new customers you can demand any payment method you want. If they don't like it they are free to not form a contract. A cashless restaurant would be legal. They are just rare because of customer preference. But just look at online shops: they generally don't allow you to pay cash.
      - thg 9y ago
        https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bbankg/__14.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bbankg/__14.html "Auf Euro lautende Banknoten sind das einzige unbeschränkte gesetzliche Zahlungsmittel." Online shops allow you to pay cash through payment on delivery (Nachnahme).
        germanier 9y ago
        As I said, this law does not mean that you have to accept cash for every transaction. It is often repeated but that does not make it true. Requiring a specific form of payment is well within the freedom of contract. And Nachname is not offered by every shop, probably not even the majority. If it's offered the usually for a steep surcharge. And while we are at it: Try paying your car tax in cash to the government and you will find it to be absolutely impossible.
- jsilence 9y ago
  And I think that is a good thing.
shoo 9y ago
meanwhile, AU: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-27/is-australia-on-the-brink-of-becoming-cashless-society/8377288 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-27/is-australia-on-the-br...
monochromatic 9y ago
Cash is (still) king.

Frondo 9y ago

Man, when I read about how the swipe fees for credit cards remain so high (3%!!), even decades after the infrastructure's been built out and can chug along in maintenance mode, I just think.. where's the market solution to this? Where's the upstart processor that charges 1%, still make bank because it's just 1s and 0s now, and exert real competitive pressure on Visa and MC?

omarchowdhury 9y ago
Charging 1% for existing payment network card transactions would put them out of business real fast when the wholesale cost to processors is more than 1%.
- myroon5 9y ago
  Do you have a source for this?
  - omarchowdhury 9y ago
    https://usa.visa.com/content/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/visa-usa-interchange-reimbursement-fees.pdf https://usa.visa.com/content/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/vis...
- mrep 9y ago
  Those costs are only so high because of reward systems that pay credit card users for purchases. Get rid of all of the rewards and 1% is easily enough to cover transaction costs.
- snovv_crash 9y ago
  Then how do they operate in the EU, where the fees are capped at 0.3%?
myroon5 9y ago
Those who pay the fees (merchants) aren't the ones who chose which cards their customers have. High fees also seem to allow high rewards to draw more consumers. I think it would be difficult to challenge Visa and MC just by undercutting them. It seems that regulatory action is the most likely thing to break Visa and MC's dominance.

raverbashing 9y ago

> Big interchange fees enable credit card companies to offer sweet rewards to big-spending consumers and get paid by the banks that issue the cards—at the expense of small businesses and customers. > Swipe fees at a cafe become part of the price of a cup of coffee, principally to the detriment of cash customers and “vanilla” cardholders who aren’t earning airline miles when they get their caffeine fix. And that's why I avoid card transactions at "Mom & Pop" stores Yes, It's good to remember those "cashbacks" and miles are not free, they came from somewhere

viraptor 9y ago
I'm assuming that all the stores for which accepting card payment makes a difference already adjusted their prices (in one way or another) to cover it. By using cash you're just paying more to offset the card fees. A lot of small places I know tell you to pay the card fee extra instead - and that's a pretty cool solution. The card fees are not the main source of income as far as I understand: it's the interest and other fees that really bring in the big money.

mrep 9y ago

$10,000 / 30 cent transaction fee comes out to a net positive for the credit card companies after 33,334 transactions (not included the average 3% additional fee). If we assume a modest 100 credit card transactions per day for high transaction industries like restaurants and food trucks, the 30 cent fee will return the $10,000 of revenue in 333 days not including the percentage fee. There is a reason restaurants/food trucks/gas stations... charge an extra fee for using credit cards on transactions below a certain price. It's cause credit card companies charge an arm and a leg for each transaction.

anon4728 9y ago
Cash is king. Always has, always will. Only cryptocurrencies will be the future, bypassing these artificial, predatory-lending, extortion, usuary monopolies.

blackguardx 9y ago

$10,000 is only about one year of credit card transaction fees at $500,000 in revenue per year. There is a cash only brewpub chain in Colorado (Mountain Sun) that easily pulls in millions per year. Everyone complains about it being cash only, but the places are so packed that it is a no brainer for the owner. 2% is big bite, especially in the restaurant business.

lngnmn 9y ago

Anti-monopoly and human rights guys should perhaps take a look into this.

kijin 9y ago

Is this even legal? Cash is legal tender for all debts, public and private. Whenever I order food and services at a real restaurant (not a fast-food joint where I must pay up front), I incur a debt with the expectation that I will settle it as I leave. Can the restaurant legally refuse to accept cash as settlement for my debt, as long as I'm not using cash in a blatantly unreasonable way such as paying $250 in dollar bills?

techsupporter 9y ago
If they tell you up front, "no cash," before you order, you are free to walk away and the merchant is under no obligation to enter into the transaction with you.
vmarsy 9y ago
It seems that it would not be legal, unless announced upfront : http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/watchdog/2014/12/24/ask-watchdog-can-business-refuse-cash/20883777/ http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/watchdog/2014/12/24/as...

petters 9y ago

But isn't cash legal tender in the US? If you have just eaten at restaurant, you have a debt to it. I thought they had to accept cash then?

enkid 9y ago
Swipe before you buy or they refuse service.
- AckSyn 9y ago
  I've been to many reataraunts that are like this. It's not uncommon.

sandGorgon 9y ago

For those who are interested in these kind of things, you should check out UPI API built by the government of India. With a singular goal - to kill Visa and MasterCard and make digital payments free in India. The ultimate goal is to tax on consumption - tax payer base in the world's fastest growing economy is abysmally small. So the economists kind of gave up there and leapfrogged into building a digital economy : make all transactions free and charge GST on consumption. The API is brilliant - recurring charges, refunds, text message payments, etc - basically all the venture funded startups in the US are all free in India.

vit05 9y ago
That looks really interesting. But, the government will hold a lot of information about their citizen, how they will use that? I do not know if something like this could be replicated in every country.
- sanxiyn 9y ago
  The government already holds a lot of information about their citizen. I think this worry is particularly American and not shared by most people. You ask, how they will use that? They don't much use what they already have, so the best guess is that there will be no use. Which is pity, since it can be used for a lot of good. But I guess you would say it is lucky, since it can be used for a lot of bad.
  - mkagenius 9y ago
    > But I guess you would say it is lucky, since it can be used for a lot of bad. "whatever can be used for bad will be used for bad" - murphy's law
- cperciva 9y ago
  the government will hold a lot of information about their citizen, how they will use that? Exactly the way they've already announced that they'll use it: To collect tax.
- 9y ago

excalibur 9y ago

This. Note. Is. Legal. Tender. For. All. Debts. Public. And. Private. Which of these words does Visa not understand?

kobeya 9y ago
That's not legally binding.
techsupporter 9y ago
There are many flaws with your absolutism here, starting with our government system not being one of absolutes. In this instance, no debt is created before a transaction. As long as the merchant states up front, "no cash," you are free to walk away if all you have is cash.
- excalibur 9y ago
  On the contrary, the government happens to be full of Sith.
scintill76 9y ago
As someone else in this thread noted, they can just not give you stuff until you've paid by card. Then you do not have a debt, so legal tender doesn't apply.
Godel_unicode 9y ago
That phrase doesn't mean what you think it means. Allowed to use it =/= must be accepted. Edit: here are the Feds words. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm
Sleeep 9y ago
It's actually you who doesn't understand. There's already thousands of businesses where your dollar bills are unwelcome (try sending an envelope full of $100s to Amazon for your next order if you don't believe me). https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages... >The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." >This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

Animats 9y ago

This will slow things down at some places such as 7-11 and Starbucks. It bugs me when I'm in line behind someone using a credit card and an affinity card. There's all this waiting, and pointing and clicking, and signing. Plus the additional delays caused by cloud-hosted point of sale systems. A cash sale takes about ten seconds.

awjr 9y ago
These days in the UK you simply touch your card to the reader, no PIN, no signature. It is definitely quicker than cash. Only works for under £30, above that value you have to put your PIN in.
- tomfitz 9y ago
  Same in other parts of Europe, Australia, and New Zealand
- viraptor 9y ago
  > Only works for under £30 This is set by the bank. In most cases you can adjust the limit. I remember Lloyds allowed you to do that.
viraptor 9y ago
I'll be the non-US person to point it out this time: This is a US problem, not a credit card problem. In Oz, I've got both the store card and the credit card on my phone. The first gets scanned while the items are being processed. The second gets touched at the end and takes max 5 seconds till "approved". In the UK it's even faster. Even that would be faster if the shop moved to the "insert cash or card, or select cashback amount" method popular in the UK rather than having to tap "card", "no cashback", "full amount" first (Oz / coles) Actually, for the fastest system I know, see London Underground. For a while now you can tap your credit card instead of the usual Oyster and you'll get close to immediate access.
cperciva 9y ago
There's all this waiting, and pointing and clicking, and signing. Ok, I agree that it's a bit annoying when I have to wait a few seconds before the terminal will allow me to tap, but it's wait, what, signing? In all seriousness, the problem you're describing is archaic terminals. Here in Canada I can't remember the last time I signed for a credit card transaction; I very rarely even have to enter my PIN. And it's much faster than paying cash.

snakeanus 9y ago

I would prefer it if restaurants started accepting cryptocurrencies. I don't really enjoy the fact that paying with a credit card lets both visa and my bank to know where I eat. Not to mention that credit cards are a giant pain in general, "this transaction was declined".

kartan 9y ago
> I would prefer it if restaurants started accepting cryptocurrencies. That's a completely different problem with completely different implications. Doesn't matter if you pay with cash or credit card, dollars are still dollars and are regulated by the Federal Reserve. To change to cryoptocurrencies is to leave the dollar. So it is not about how you transfer money, but about which currency you work with.

kartan 9y ago

I live in Sweden, and this is very common. Handling cash is inefficient for everyone involved. The big downside is that people that didn't adapted , usually older citizens, find themselves in a worse situation. This is still more obvious in situations like the buses where you can't even buy a ticket as you need to buy it in advance. If you don't have one, you need to buy the ticket on your mobile device, and this is not easy for everyone in society. So it is mostly a good thing, with more efficient transactions, but it is not heaven.

jaclaz 9y ago

Similar discussion/topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14755034 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14755034

Jazgot 9y ago

This is bribe, and should be treated like this.

anon4728 9y ago
In some jurisdictions it might even be illegal.

anon4728 9y ago

VISA wants an indebted populace beholden only to them... tracked, monetized, monopolized, lacking in all privacy and stuffed with fees. I will boycott all such restaurants, and you should too. It's a fools move to accept such an offer. Plus, waiters will walk out.

marak830 9y ago

For those interested from an executive chef. 10k? That's a shitty deal for the restaurant. You have two things off the top of my head that are working against that: a) cash sales are easy. Really, if it's a small purchase they will prefer to buy I cash. B)if it's a large purchase that the customer wants to pay in cash, (and assuming the restaurant does a lot of large tables/bookings), they can delete it from the system and avoid tax. B) sounds shit I know, but it happens. I have seen it on multiple continents, over my professional life (17 years atm). So what is 10k with a. 2-5% charge? A drop in the water. Restaurants run on(best case) 25% costing. To put this into context the way we are taught is: 33% cost worst case. 33 food, 33 labour and overhead, 33 profit. Never works out like that (in a bad way), but that's your base. Execitutuce chef's aim doe 25% to cover the losses in the other sectors(overstaff etc). So a standard non-chain restaurant that charges $15 for a meal is looking at $5 "profit" worst case per meal. If they are running at peak at all times with no downtime or overbook or refund due to screw up. Which is great. Would be lovely. Never happens that way though. Not every day is busy, and people don't book(allowing restaurants to staff up). Skipping all the intermediate parts, what little profit they make a cc takes a percentile off the top. Doesn't seem like much to most people but for an indiatey that knife edge, those cc charges can add up.