10 ms·

This analysis of a report seems pretty bad, even with only the title and abstract available. Firstly, the report doesn't even cover the entire developed world,

This analysis of a report seems pretty bad, even with only the title and abstract available. Firstly, the report doesn't even cover the entire developed world, just 11 countries. Notably, Japan doesn't appear to be included. To be honest, I found that slightly offensive. Secondly the U.K. isn't the overall clear "best" of those 11. It's not bad, and does better on some things, worse on others. In my subjective experience (as a Brit) British people often think the NHS is the best health service in the world. It's not bad, and it's free. Waiting times are often long, particularly for non-urgent conditions. Compared to the U.S. system I prefer the NHS, but there are other options, and the NHS could provide a better service than it does.

mboto 9y ago
As a fellow Brit I'd agree we're proud of the NHS but I don't think people believe it's the best in the world. We complain too much for that.
- comstock 9y ago
  well, this is all pretty subjective. But the attitude I often seem to encounter in the U.K. is "it's not great, but everything is bad everywhere and it's the best".
- hackerboos 9y ago
  France ranks higher in some studies. I did a lot of personal research after "Sicko" the movie was released.
ramchip 9y ago
I'm also really puzzled by the omission of Japan. It has the highest life expectancy in the world, I would expect a comparison of health systems in the developed world to include it.
- comstock 9y ago
  The original report is better. This report is really about saying "the US system could be a lot better" rather than an overall ranking of healthcare. The way it's being used here, to say the NHS is wonderful, doesn't work very well in my opinion.
- deepsun 9y ago
  From my friends' stories, Japan healthcare experiences were pretty bad: 1. Extremely long lines in small rooms, so people cram together to get a better chance of coughing on each other. 2. For any illness doctors listen to you and prescribe exactly three drugs: antibiotic, pain reducer, and "something for stomach". For any symptoms. 3. There is no "sick leave" thing, so if you're sick -- you are absent. 4. Because of #3, people always come to work being acutely sick (so if it's flu, they cough on each other, obviously). Although labor traditions are the horror story of its own, no one worked there recommens to ever do that (just youtube for "working in japan").
  - comstock 9y ago
    I mean, I guess I could also provide counter anicdotes (such as it taking 1 week to get adequate medication for a chronic condition in Japan, which in 15 years I'd been unable to obtain in the U.K.). But I'm not sure it would be helpful. Instead maybe the WHO World Health Care report ranking is a useful datapoint? http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
  - ramchip 9y ago
    I work in Japan, actually. I have sick days, never waited more than about 15 min at the hospital (without an appointment!), and the care was excellent. YMMV - I recon sick days are indeed unusual.
jseliger 9y ago
In my subjective experience (as a Brit) British people often think the NHS is the best health service in the world Having experienced it, I'm surprised that Brits feel that way. When I was studying abroad a while ago (which was not a great experience for other reasons... https://jakeseliger.com/2012/11/18/about-the-university-of-east-anglia-uea-why-you-shouldnt-go/ https://jakeseliger.com/2012/11/18/about-the-university-of-e...), I needed an x-ray and then a CT scan for what appeared to be a minor issue. So I went to the clinic and signed up for one, only to discover a week later that an x-ray typically takes 6 - 8 weeks to be done! I asked around and was told to go to Bupa facility (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupa). To the Brits this seemed like an obvious solution, and paying in cash is in fact a good way to get things done quickly. It turns out that when people have something really wrong with them, the solution is often to just pay out of pocket! This disabused me of any notion that publicly-provided healthcare is automatically superior.
- mikeash 9y ago
  Is it really a big deal to wait 6-8 weeks to get an x-ray for a minor issue? Obviously this is not ideal, but it seems pretty minor compared to the ridiculous stuff we deal with in the US system, especially if you compare to the pre-ACA US system.
  - _dps 9y ago
    Yes, it certainly can be a big deal. You are assuming that there is a reliable way to evaluate "minor" and that the bureaucrats in charge will make that decision well in most cases (even though their incentive structure, parallel to an insurance company's, pushes them to trade bounded-but-not-lethal suffering against the bottom line every day). I speak from personal experience in a country with an NHS-like "free" system. A close relative of mine flew to the US for short-term treatment of what was considered a "minor" eye problem, because he didn't want to spend 2-3 months functionally blind. It's true that the condition didn't threaten his life, but it did threaten his livelihood and personal autonomy on a daily basis; the bureaucratic process assessing priority decided this was a "minor" problem. It's easy for us as the general population who isn't suffering to decide "minor, non-life-threatening" medical conditions can be comfortably shoved to the side. *edited to remove language that could be considered inflammatory in the final paragraph, which was not my intent

mboto 9y ago

As a fellow Brit I'd agree we're proud of the NHS but I don't think people believe it's the best in the world. We complain too much for that.

comstock 9y ago
well, this is all pretty subjective. But the attitude I often seem to encounter in the U.K. is "it's not great, but everything is bad everywhere and it's the best".
hackerboos 9y ago
France ranks higher in some studies. I did a lot of personal research after "Sicko" the movie was released.

ramchip 9y ago

I'm also really puzzled by the omission of Japan. It has the highest life expectancy in the world, I would expect a comparison of health systems in the developed world to include it.

comstock 9y ago
The original report is better. This report is really about saying "the US system could be a lot better" rather than an overall ranking of healthcare. The way it's being used here, to say the NHS is wonderful, doesn't work very well in my opinion.
deepsun 9y ago
From my friends' stories, Japan healthcare experiences were pretty bad: 1. Extremely long lines in small rooms, so people cram together to get a better chance of coughing on each other. 2. For any illness doctors listen to you and prescribe exactly three drugs: antibiotic, pain reducer, and "something for stomach". For any symptoms. 3. There is no "sick leave" thing, so if you're sick -- you are absent. 4. Because of #3, people always come to work being acutely sick (so if it's flu, they cough on each other, obviously). Although labor traditions are the horror story of its own, no one worked there recommens to ever do that (just youtube for "working in japan").
- comstock 9y ago
  I mean, I guess I could also provide counter anicdotes (such as it taking 1 week to get adequate medication for a chronic condition in Japan, which in 15 years I'd been unable to obtain in the U.K.). But I'm not sure it would be helpful. Instead maybe the WHO World Health Care report ranking is a useful datapoint? http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
- ramchip 9y ago
  I work in Japan, actually. I have sick days, never waited more than about 15 min at the hospital (without an appointment!), and the care was excellent. YMMV - I recon sick days are indeed unusual.

jseliger 9y ago

In my subjective experience (as a Brit) British people often think the NHS is the best health service in the world Having experienced it, I'm surprised that Brits feel that way. When I was studying abroad a while ago (which was not a great experience for other reasons... https://jakeseliger.com/2012/11/18/about-the-university-of-east-anglia-uea-why-you-shouldnt-go/ https://jakeseliger.com/2012/11/18/about-the-university-of-e...), I needed an x-ray and then a CT scan for what appeared to be a minor issue. So I went to the clinic and signed up for one, only to discover a week later that an x-ray typically takes 6 - 8 weeks to be done! I asked around and was told to go to Bupa facility (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupa). To the Brits this seemed like an obvious solution, and paying in cash is in fact a good way to get things done quickly. It turns out that when people have something really wrong with them, the solution is often to just pay out of pocket! This disabused me of any notion that publicly-provided healthcare is automatically superior.

mikeash 9y ago
Is it really a big deal to wait 6-8 weeks to get an x-ray for a minor issue? Obviously this is not ideal, but it seems pretty minor compared to the ridiculous stuff we deal with in the US system, especially if you compare to the pre-ACA US system.
- _dps 9y ago
  Yes, it certainly can be a big deal. You are assuming that there is a reliable way to evaluate "minor" and that the bureaucrats in charge will make that decision well in most cases (even though their incentive structure, parallel to an insurance company's, pushes them to trade bounded-but-not-lethal suffering against the bottom line every day). I speak from personal experience in a country with an NHS-like "free" system. A close relative of mine flew to the US for short-term treatment of what was considered a "minor" eye problem, because he didn't want to spend 2-3 months functionally blind. It's true that the condition didn't threaten his life, but it did threaten his livelihood and personal autonomy on a daily basis; the bureaucratic process assessing priority decided this was a "minor" problem. It's easy for us as the general population who isn't suffering to decide "minor, non-life-threatening" medical conditions can be comfortably shoved to the side. *edited to remove language that could be considered inflammatory in the final paragraph, which was not my intent