4 ms·

Part of me worries that "accused" seems like a very low standard, and part of me has little idea how to better address the very real problem.

tptacek 9y ago
If that's true for harassment, it's even more true for other things that would put you on YC's shitlist; after all, genuine misunderstandings and misfortunes routinely kill VC deals, but if that happens with a YC firm you already have to know it's costing your VC firm reputation.
clive_boosey 9y ago
I accuse Paul Graham of harassing women. There you go - he needs to go on the list and be blacklisted now. He has been accused of harassing women now. It's a fact!
jdavis703 9y ago
Don't you "accuse" a restaurant of having subpar food or service when reviewing on Yelp? When I read restaurant reviews I take certain ones with a grain of salt, unless I hear the same problems coming up in multiple different reviews. These accusations can have a material impact on the restaurant, similar to the impact it might have on a VC. Hopefully, no person will take one review as a final judgment on a VC, but if a pattern emerges people should proceed with caution.
- landon32 9y ago
  Yeah, I think a service like this becomes much more effective when both positive and negative reviews can be posted. Also would help a lot if you could see analytics on the review, like average rating from each gender. Then it would be much more clear who is biased.
- panzer_wyrm 9y ago
  Hmm. Not sure about it. Food and service are somewhat objective. For a lot of reviews will average quite well. In the current climate if 99 founders says they are not harassed and one says they were, if it goes public the outrage machine will side with the one, reputation will be destroyed and there is no way for the accused to defend himself. That is how the world works currently. Like it or not. And most often than not there will be no court case in which he will be able to clear his name or be proven guilty and made to pay for it. Sexual harassment is both a terrible thing and being accused is also terribly potent weapon. Of course we cannot demand X > 1 reports. Because even one time is too much. See the problem? Zero tolerance is easy to abuse. Some tolerance is disregard for victims. Shitty situation all the way.
- ams6110 9y ago
  Reviewing a restaurant and accusing someone of sexual harrassment are not even remotely in the same ballpark of potential for long long-term damage to someone's reputation, family, career, and future.
  - wpietri 9y ago
    True. Up until about five minutes ago, accusing a VC of sexual harassment has substantially less effect than a bad Yelp review. That aside, his point stands. Personal testimony is evidence. Seriously people deciding whether to act on personal testimony have a variety of heuristics and tools for deciding to what extent they weight a particular piece of evidence.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    This is easy to dispute. A lot of restaurants operate on a razor's edge of profitability. More restaurants fold every year than VC firms. Restaurants tend to be operated by middle class people with weaker backup plans than venture capital firms, which are staffed by investment bankers, most of whom have Ivy League pedigrees --- in fact, most of whom collect 2/20 on funds invested no matter how bad the quality of their dealflow gets. Meanwhile, these same VCs that people on this thread are champing at the bit to defend routinely create blacklists of founders, which they'll share with competitors to fuck people over. If they don't like you, they'll take meetings with you, telling you the whole time that they can't wait to get you a term sheet, and then take your slide deck and their notes from the meeting and send them to portfolio companies and other VCs for competitive intel†. It's a little silly to think we're going to feel sorry for these people in this situation. Really, the distinction is that it's important to some people that we all believe a large fraction of sexual harassment complaints are bogus. It's got nothing to do with the impact of YC shunning you, and everything to do with the politics of the issue. † Ask me how I know this. But, I mean, you already know how I know this.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]

tptacek 9y ago

If that's true for harassment, it's even more true for other things that would put you on YC's shitlist; after all, genuine misunderstandings and misfortunes routinely kill VC deals, but if that happens with a YC firm you already have to know it's costing your VC firm reputation.

clive_boosey 9y ago

I accuse Paul Graham of harassing women. There you go - he needs to go on the list and be blacklisted now. He has been accused of harassing women now. It's a fact!

jdavis703 9y ago

Don't you "accuse" a restaurant of having subpar food or service when reviewing on Yelp? When I read restaurant reviews I take certain ones with a grain of salt, unless I hear the same problems coming up in multiple different reviews. These accusations can have a material impact on the restaurant, similar to the impact it might have on a VC. Hopefully, no person will take one review as a final judgment on a VC, but if a pattern emerges people should proceed with caution.

landon32 9y ago
Yeah, I think a service like this becomes much more effective when both positive and negative reviews can be posted. Also would help a lot if you could see analytics on the review, like average rating from each gender. Then it would be much more clear who is biased.
panzer_wyrm 9y ago
Hmm. Not sure about it. Food and service are somewhat objective. For a lot of reviews will average quite well. In the current climate if 99 founders says they are not harassed and one says they were, if it goes public the outrage machine will side with the one, reputation will be destroyed and there is no way for the accused to defend himself. That is how the world works currently. Like it or not. And most often than not there will be no court case in which he will be able to clear his name or be proven guilty and made to pay for it. Sexual harassment is both a terrible thing and being accused is also terribly potent weapon. Of course we cannot demand X > 1 reports. Because even one time is too much. See the problem? Zero tolerance is easy to abuse. Some tolerance is disregard for victims. Shitty situation all the way.
ams6110 9y ago
Reviewing a restaurant and accusing someone of sexual harrassment are not even remotely in the same ballpark of potential for long long-term damage to someone's reputation, family, career, and future.
- wpietri 9y ago
  True. Up until about five minutes ago, accusing a VC of sexual harassment has substantially less effect than a bad Yelp review. That aside, his point stands. Personal testimony is evidence. Seriously people deciding whether to act on personal testimony have a variety of heuristics and tools for deciding to what extent they weight a particular piece of evidence.
- tptacek 9y ago
  This is easy to dispute. A lot of restaurants operate on a razor's edge of profitability. More restaurants fold every year than VC firms. Restaurants tend to be operated by middle class people with weaker backup plans than venture capital firms, which are staffed by investment bankers, most of whom have Ivy League pedigrees --- in fact, most of whom collect 2/20 on funds invested no matter how bad the quality of their dealflow gets. Meanwhile, these same VCs that people on this thread are champing at the bit to defend routinely create blacklists of founders, which they'll share with competitors to fuck people over. If they don't like you, they'll take meetings with you, telling you the whole time that they can't wait to get you a term sheet, and then take your slide deck and their notes from the meeting and send them to portfolio companies and other VCs for competitive intel†. It's a little silly to think we're going to feel sorry for these people in this situation. Really, the distinction is that it's important to some people that we all believe a large fraction of sexual harassment complaints are bogus. It's got nothing to do with the impact of YC shunning you, and everything to do with the politics of the issue. † Ask me how I know this. But, I mean, you already know how I know this.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]