4 ms·

I do not see what forcing a class on someone like this (especially at their age) will accomplish. Does anyone really think a semester long course is going to m

by whatok 9y ago

I do not see what forcing a class on someone like this (especially at their age) will accomplish. Does anyone really think a semester long course is going to make her go "well, gee whiz, guess I shouldn't discriminate against those Asians anymore"?

eric_h 9y ago
Honestly I think it's better than nothing. Discrimination like this is usually based on complete ignorance/lack of exposure to different cultures. A course on Asian cultures may actually have some effect of humanizing the asian people for this particular bigot.
- ihsw2 9y ago
  Or it might have the opposite effect and further reinforce their lack of tolerance, especially if the course is taught from a position of outright hostility and antagonism rather than purely informational.
- whatok 9y ago
  I'd agree with the ignorance description but argue that "One word says it all. Asian" was definitely influenced by some sort of exposure to different cultures. I'm not a social scientist but I'd bet good money that someone who is ignorantly informed by their personal experiences like that will probably not find great value in something abstract like a class. Also is the purpose to prevent further illegal discrimination or change her viewpoint? If it's to prevent further illegal discrimination, a larger punitive fine will hammer that point in. If it's to change her viewpoint, being racist is not illegal in the US, at least not yet.
- ebfd 9y ago
  >Discrimination like this is usually based on complete ignorance/lack of exposure to different cultures. Do people from heavily black areas (e.g. Memphis, TN or Birmingham, AL) tend to be less racist than those from homogeneously white areas? (e.g. Portland, OR or Montpelier, VT)?
- jasode 9y ago
  >Honestly I think it's better than nothing. Actually, I think the forced class makes the situation worse. My life experiences tells me classes and other attempts at "re-education" only hardens the attitudes for hatred and discrimination. For a person to change their racism/homophobia, it requires interaction with another human that triggers an emotional component. For example, a person who despises gays has a child grow up to be gay which changes their mind. Or a somebody who hates blacks later ends up stuck in the front line of a war with other blacks watching each others' backs and it eliminates (or lessens) the prejudice. It doesn't mean that positive human interactions will always "cure" everyone but it seems to be more effective than classes. Classes are more useful for cultural/etiquette topics (e.g. how to hold business cards with 2 hands in Japan).
  - eric_h 9y ago
    There's a very good chance you're correct, of course. I suppose my comment was just my general hopeful optimism coming out. Really, though, how does one actually "deprogram" someone with opinions like this? Can it actually be done? Casual racists are a toxic population whose opinions and behaviors in favor of said racism bring no value to society. How on earth do we eliminate it? I used to think that the steamroller of progress and information would gradually eliminate racism and sexism and denial of science and logic as older generations died out, but the rise of the next generation of racists and MRAs and flat earthers seems to be a fairly strong counterpoint to that. I fear for the future of humanity.
rm_-rf_slash 9y ago
When thousands upon thousands of white Americans came to Los Angeles at the turn of the 20th century, they assumed that the Mexican-American families who had been in California for hundreds of years were recent illegal immigrants. It's the same story, over and over.
boomboomsubban 9y ago
New information may change her view, and it certainly has a better chance than just a fine. Financial punishment is a vital part, but it alone would reinforce the narrative she likely already has about the government taking her money and giving it to immigrants.
Dirlewanger 9y ago
Someone's getting kickbacks somewhere in the CA state government for it.
djtriptych 9y ago
And yet, education is the best antidote to racism.
- koolba 9y ago
  Travel maybe a vaccine, but I doubt education cures much. People need personal experiences and a truly racist person forced into a classroom is just going to count the hours till she's out of there.
- throwaway7312 9y ago
  Exposure to other races, however, has the opposite effect (decreased tolerance toward other races), regardless how much education (or reeducation) an individual has undergone. [1]-[19] Which begs the question: can we ever achieve a society that is both multicultural and welcoming to all races? All the science suggests no; we can either have our cake, or eat it. We must choose. [1] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2012.00289.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2012.... [2] http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/4/311.short http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/4/311.short [3] http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/3/1211.abstract http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/3/1211.abstract [4] http://cos.sagepub.com/content/53/2/120.abstract http://cos.sagepub.com/content/53/2/120.abstract [5] http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/08/20/esr.jcv081.abstract http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/08/20/esr.j... [6] http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0095660 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.... [7] http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4939-1705-1_12 http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4939-1705-1_1... [8] http://spq.sagepub.com/content/78/4/324.short http://spq.sagepub.com/content/78/4/324.short [9] http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/92/1/249 http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/92/1/249 [10] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/juaf.12015/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/juaf.12015/abstra... [11] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X14001392 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X14... [12] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X1400074X http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X14... [13] https://www.jstor.org/stable/425106?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents https://www.jstor.org/stable/425106?seq=1#page_scan_tab_cont... [14] http://www.scirp.org/reference/ReferencesPapers.aspx?ReferenceID=1251240 http://www.scirp.org/reference/ReferencesPapers.aspx?Referen... [15] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886912005569 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886912... [16] https://www.nber.org/papers/w21079 https://www.nber.org/papers/w21079 [17] http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-asks-is-a-better-world-possible/ http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-asks-is-a-better-wor... [18] http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/wps/WP201530.pdf http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/wps/WP201530.pdf [19] http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/School-Choice-Universal-Vouchers-and-Native-Flight-from-Local-Schools.pdf http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/School-Choice...

by whatok 9y ago

eric_h 9y ago

Honestly I think it's better than nothing. Discrimination like this is usually based on complete ignorance/lack of exposure to different cultures. A course on Asian cultures may actually have some effect of humanizing the asian people for this particular bigot.

ihsw2 9y ago
Or it might have the opposite effect and further reinforce their lack of tolerance, especially if the course is taught from a position of outright hostility and antagonism rather than purely informational.
whatok 9y ago
I'd agree with the ignorance description but argue that "One word says it all. Asian" was definitely influenced by some sort of exposure to different cultures. I'm not a social scientist but I'd bet good money that someone who is ignorantly informed by their personal experiences like that will probably not find great value in something abstract like a class. Also is the purpose to prevent further illegal discrimination or change her viewpoint? If it's to prevent further illegal discrimination, a larger punitive fine will hammer that point in. If it's to change her viewpoint, being racist is not illegal in the US, at least not yet.
ebfd 9y ago
>Discrimination like this is usually based on complete ignorance/lack of exposure to different cultures. Do people from heavily black areas (e.g. Memphis, TN or Birmingham, AL) tend to be less racist than those from homogeneously white areas? (e.g. Portland, OR or Montpelier, VT)?
jasode 9y ago
>Honestly I think it's better than nothing. Actually, I think the forced class makes the situation worse. My life experiences tells me classes and other attempts at "re-education" only hardens the attitudes for hatred and discrimination. For a person to change their racism/homophobia, it requires interaction with another human that triggers an emotional component. For example, a person who despises gays has a child grow up to be gay which changes their mind. Or a somebody who hates blacks later ends up stuck in the front line of a war with other blacks watching each others' backs and it eliminates (or lessens) the prejudice. It doesn't mean that positive human interactions will always "cure" everyone but it seems to be more effective than classes. Classes are more useful for cultural/etiquette topics (e.g. how to hold business cards with 2 hands in Japan).
- eric_h 9y ago
  There's a very good chance you're correct, of course. I suppose my comment was just my general hopeful optimism coming out. Really, though, how does one actually "deprogram" someone with opinions like this? Can it actually be done? Casual racists are a toxic population whose opinions and behaviors in favor of said racism bring no value to society. How on earth do we eliminate it? I used to think that the steamroller of progress and information would gradually eliminate racism and sexism and denial of science and logic as older generations died out, but the rise of the next generation of racists and MRAs and flat earthers seems to be a fairly strong counterpoint to that. I fear for the future of humanity.

rm_-rf_slash 9y ago

When thousands upon thousands of white Americans came to Los Angeles at the turn of the 20th century, they assumed that the Mexican-American families who had been in California for hundreds of years were recent illegal immigrants. It's the same story, over and over.

boomboomsubban 9y ago

New information may change her view, and it certainly has a better chance than just a fine. Financial punishment is a vital part, but it alone would reinforce the narrative she likely already has about the government taking her money and giving it to immigrants.

Dirlewanger 9y ago

Someone's getting kickbacks somewhere in the CA state government for it.

djtriptych 9y ago

And yet, education is the best antidote to racism.

koolba 9y ago
Travel maybe a vaccine, but I doubt education cures much. People need personal experiences and a truly racist person forced into a classroom is just going to count the hours till she's out of there.
throwaway7312 9y ago
Exposure to other races, however, has the opposite effect (decreased tolerance toward other races), regardless how much education (or reeducation) an individual has undergone. [1]-[19] Which begs the question: can we ever achieve a society that is both multicultural and welcoming to all races? All the science suggests no; we can either have our cake, or eat it. We must choose. [1] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2012.00289.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2012.... [2] http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/4/311.short http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/4/311.short [3] http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/3/1211.abstract http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/3/1211.abstract [4] http://cos.sagepub.com/content/53/2/120.abstract http://cos.sagepub.com/content/53/2/120.abstract [5] http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/08/20/esr.jcv081.abstract http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/08/20/esr.j... [6] http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0095660 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.... [7] http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4939-1705-1_12 http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4939-1705-1_1... [8] http://spq.sagepub.com/content/78/4/324.short http://spq.sagepub.com/content/78/4/324.short [9] http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/92/1/249 http://sf.oxfordjournals.org/content/92/1/249 [10] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/juaf.12015/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/juaf.12015/abstra... [11] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X14001392 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X14... [12] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X1400074X http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X14... [13] https://www.jstor.org/stable/425106?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents https://www.jstor.org/stable/425106?seq=1#page_scan_tab_cont... [14] http://www.scirp.org/reference/ReferencesPapers.aspx?ReferenceID=1251240 http://www.scirp.org/reference/ReferencesPapers.aspx?Referen... [15] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886912005569 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886912... [16] https://www.nber.org/papers/w21079 https://www.nber.org/papers/w21079 [17] http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-asks-is-a-better-world-possible/ http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-asks-is-a-better-wor... [18] http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/wps/WP201530.pdf http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/wps/WP201530.pdf [19] http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/School-Choice-Universal-Vouchers-and-Native-Flight-from-Local-Schools.pdf http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/School-Choice...