4 ms·

Getting a raise and bargaining for a starting pay, and offering a default pay for a job, these are three different things, I think. Most people don't ask for r

by erikb 9y ago

Getting a raise and bargaining for a starting pay, and offering a default pay for a job, these are three different things, I think. Most people don't ask for raises, or draw no consequences from being mad about not getting a raise. So after a few generations companies adapted and simply don't offer raises anymore as default. People who really want to make more money, still get more money. Just not in the same job. While working less in their current job they start to look for other jobs with better pay, and since they have a current job they can proactively bargain for the pay they want. If they don't get it they just don't switch. And last but not least, but I hope at least here people have noticed that now we have a method called Start-up. That is a way to get a lot of raises in a very short time frame as well. The only requirement is the cruel real life fairness of having a growing marketshare. So we have everything, non-increasing incomes for lazy people, regular raises by job switching from dedicated people, and fast-lane high-risers for people who can really take a risk. And of course we also have a problem. But that problem has nothing to do with any of the three things (raises, job offer bargaining, default pay): We have more and more jobs that are automated and replaced by machines. If you have autopilots in airplanes that do a well enough job, you simply don't really need the pilots any more, for instance. I honestly don't know if we can find a solution for that, or if we are heading for another period like feudalism where only a small percentage of people actually have a good life. But, well, as long as we don't talk about that problem we certainly won't resolve it.

linkregister 9y ago
The opportunity to job hop is not as universal as you might think. Until fairly recently I also had the false impression that anyone could do it to achieve a pay raise. There are plenty of occupations and industries that preclude job hopping. 1. Company towns, heavy industries, monopsony; many regions have one large employer or customer offering a variety of jobs to the inhabitants. Think: auto workers, chicken farmers. There is nobody else in the region to buy their labor or product, so unless an individual moves, they cannot change jobs without retraining and/or liquidating their assets. 2. Ultra-specialists. There are many occupations where turnover is low and the total number of people in the field is low. Compensation may be high due to a scarcity of qualified applicants, but the overall number of positions may be low. Changing jobs in a region might be exceptionally difficult since there may only be a total of a dozen jobs for a given region. Example: speech pathologists, radiographers, elevator repairers. 3. Middle management. Once someone enters the ranks of middle management, job hopping can be destructive to a career. Instead, it is expected that a manager will move to different departments. A middle manager or company officer is expected to quantifiably add value to a company. If you look at the successful managers in tech, you will find most have only been managers at 2 or 3 companies in total, with a tenure of at least 5 years at each.
- erikb 9y ago
  In theory yes, but in practice I think people who want to make a good amount of money don't work in these jobs, or at least not for long. For instance, you aren't born as ultra-specialist. You get there by dedicated work and the goal to stick to that kind of task. People who want to earn money know a little about a lot of different things. About the middle management I can only suggest to read the Gervais Principle. They may be mostly the people who are not smart enough to get to the top and not socially skilled enough to job-hop easily enough.
xxSparkleSxx 9y ago
I don't know about that. My last job, awful awful company, flat out refused any semi-decent raises. 1.5% was a common yearly raise (only after we were bought out by an international pharma, prior 5% was pretty standard). I asked for a large raise, 20%, but I had the numbers to back them up. For 1.5 years I completed 2x the work everyday as the average person in my department. I was pulled around for awhile before they refused and said they would evaluate at the next raise cycle...and I managed a 4% raise (which included a promotion). It was pathetic. If I was in sales it wouldn't be a problem, but I didn't have the leverage so they screwed me over. I left a few months after and even a couple years later the company is in a downward spiral (they sold off the division I used to work in - guess fucking over all your employees and forcing all the competent ones to leave results in lower profits over the long term). So, I think "people don't ask for raises" is a very dubious claim.

by erikb 9y ago

linkregister 9y ago

The opportunity to job hop is not as universal as you might think. Until fairly recently I also had the false impression that anyone could do it to achieve a pay raise. There are plenty of occupations and industries that preclude job hopping. 1. Company towns, heavy industries, monopsony; many regions have one large employer or customer offering a variety of jobs to the inhabitants. Think: auto workers, chicken farmers. There is nobody else in the region to buy their labor or product, so unless an individual moves, they cannot change jobs without retraining and/or liquidating their assets. 2. Ultra-specialists. There are many occupations where turnover is low and the total number of people in the field is low. Compensation may be high due to a scarcity of qualified applicants, but the overall number of positions may be low. Changing jobs in a region might be exceptionally difficult since there may only be a total of a dozen jobs for a given region. Example: speech pathologists, radiographers, elevator repairers. 3. Middle management. Once someone enters the ranks of middle management, job hopping can be destructive to a career. Instead, it is expected that a manager will move to different departments. A middle manager or company officer is expected to quantifiably add value to a company. If you look at the successful managers in tech, you will find most have only been managers at 2 or 3 companies in total, with a tenure of at least 5 years at each.

erikb 9y ago
In theory yes, but in practice I think people who want to make a good amount of money don't work in these jobs, or at least not for long. For instance, you aren't born as ultra-specialist. You get there by dedicated work and the goal to stick to that kind of task. People who want to earn money know a little about a lot of different things. About the middle management I can only suggest to read the Gervais Principle. They may be mostly the people who are not smart enough to get to the top and not socially skilled enough to job-hop easily enough.

xxSparkleSxx 9y ago

I don't know about that. My last job, awful awful company, flat out refused any semi-decent raises. 1.5% was a common yearly raise (only after we were bought out by an international pharma, prior 5% was pretty standard). I asked for a large raise, 20%, but I had the numbers to back them up. For 1.5 years I completed 2x the work everyday as the average person in my department. I was pulled around for awhile before they refused and said they would evaluate at the next raise cycle...and I managed a 4% raise (which included a promotion). It was pathetic. If I was in sales it wouldn't be a problem, but I didn't have the leverage so they screwed me over. I left a few months after and even a couple years later the company is in a downward spiral (they sold off the division I used to work in - guess fucking over all your employees and forcing all the competent ones to leave results in lower profits over the long term). So, I think "people don't ask for raises" is a very dubious claim.