4 ms·

Hey that's not cool. How can you just disqualify a company that way just because they are Chinese? Alibaba is an excellent company with a lot of integrity.

arihant 9y ago
I think the trust deficit towards Chinese companies is due to their government. The government can just force their companies to hand over all data. They already do for their own citizens.
- dirktheman 9y ago
  As opposed to the US...?
  - jjeaff 9y ago
    In the US, there is due process. Granted, that due process has been seriously eroded over the years in cases where the government can claim terrorism, but otherwise, it still takes a court order to force a company to comply with a government request for information.
    - zorked 9y ago
      Is due process that has been eroded over the years still due process? Where do we draw the line?
      - weberc2 9y ago
        There's no need to draw a line; it's a risk continuum. With no due process at all, China is a higher risk option than three US.
        weberc2 9y ago
        *the US Thanks autocorrect!
      - jjeaff 9y ago
        Right now, apparently at terrorism. And there is still a line, a court must approve it, might be a kangaroo court, but a judge is signing off on things.
    - brooklyntribe 9y ago
      Due process? Ha. Arrested in NYC way back when. Rights read. NO. Telephone call.NO. Why was I just arrested? WHO KNOWS? I need my lawyer. HA. You can't hold me for over 24 hours for nothing? You don't like it? Sue us. The NYC tax payers will end paying all the costs. HA HA HA My experience with "Due Process" in the USA. At least I got out alive, in China may have been different. Thank you NYC taxpayers for that $1000 settlement check after legal fees. :-)
      - kobeya 9y ago
        So your rights were violated and you got legal recourse. Your complaint is?
        krebby 9y ago
        That it shouldn't have happened in the first place? That our legal process is pretty damn broken? I have a similar story in NYC except I never sued so I didn't get a check. Just a massive waste of my time, energy and money and no recourse.
        fredoliveira 9y ago
        I think it is pretty clear that his complaint is that his rights were violated in the first place.
        kobeya 9y ago
        For which he received compensation.
  - thewhitetulip 9y ago
    the worrying fact is that the govt is whole and sole of the society, it can happen that one day they just kick out the company from mainland. Just like Google left china few years back, I don't think US is this bad. I hope not.
  - JohnTHaller 9y ago
    The US doesn't have a great firewall they force all data to go through which they utilize to weaponize javascript served from their own companies to international citizens. China does this. They used their great firewall to modify Baidu javascript to serve malware to international users to turn web browsers into a DDoS against github. All because github hosted projects that allowed Chinese citizens to read the uncensored web. So, no, you can't trust anything hosted in mainland China. And, no, it's not the same as the US.
- coldtea 9y ago
  How's that different for any other country?
  - arihant 9y ago
    Due process, transparency, the option to overthrow the government. China has none of these. Hell, their government can ban the words "net neutrality" and "freedom" if they want to tomorrow, with no protest or recourse options. Very few countries have these kinds of constraints on companies.
mkl 9y ago
Wener seems to be Chinese and working for a Chinese company [1]. They didn't state their reasons for not trusting Alibaba clearly, but that doesn't mean they're speaking from ignorance or prejudice. I have no solid opinion myself, as I have no real knowledge either way. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12478652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12478652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12478772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12478772
jansho 9y ago
I think we are also conditioned to not trust China. Certainly in the U.K. coverage about China is always negative, from dog stews to mafia-styled political stories. And of course the fact that China is gobbling so much and so fast ... Alibaba is apparently much bigger than Google and Amazon combined. Who's to say that Alibaba isn't the commercial face of the Chinese government? I think that's what we're really wary about. Rational or irrational, we're definitely jealous, so whatever, that's high compliment for China. But China really is becoming a super, which means it's a threat to the old order. In South East Asia, it was once unthinkable to not see the US as an ally. Now this is shifting, for better or for worse cough South China Sea

arihant 9y ago

I think the trust deficit towards Chinese companies is due to their government. The government can just force their companies to hand over all data. They already do for their own citizens.

dirktheman 9y ago
As opposed to the US...?
- jjeaff 9y ago
  In the US, there is due process. Granted, that due process has been seriously eroded over the years in cases where the government can claim terrorism, but otherwise, it still takes a court order to force a company to comply with a government request for information.
  - zorked 9y ago
    Is due process that has been eroded over the years still due process? Where do we draw the line?
    - weberc2 9y ago
      There's no need to draw a line; it's a risk continuum. With no due process at all, China is a higher risk option than three US.
      - weberc2 9y ago
        *the US Thanks autocorrect!
    - jjeaff 9y ago
      Right now, apparently at terrorism. And there is still a line, a court must approve it, might be a kangaroo court, but a judge is signing off on things.
  - brooklyntribe 9y ago
    Due process? Ha. Arrested in NYC way back when. Rights read. NO. Telephone call.NO. Why was I just arrested? WHO KNOWS? I need my lawyer. HA. You can't hold me for over 24 hours for nothing? You don't like it? Sue us. The NYC tax payers will end paying all the costs. HA HA HA My experience with "Due Process" in the USA. At least I got out alive, in China may have been different. Thank you NYC taxpayers for that $1000 settlement check after legal fees. :-)
    - kobeya 9y ago
      So your rights were violated and you got legal recourse. Your complaint is?
      - krebby 9y ago
        That it shouldn't have happened in the first place? That our legal process is pretty damn broken? I have a similar story in NYC except I never sued so I didn't get a check. Just a massive waste of my time, energy and money and no recourse.
      - fredoliveira 9y ago
        I think it is pretty clear that his complaint is that his rights were violated in the first place.
        kobeya 9y ago
        For which he received compensation.
- thewhitetulip 9y ago
  the worrying fact is that the govt is whole and sole of the society, it can happen that one day they just kick out the company from mainland. Just like Google left china few years back, I don't think US is this bad. I hope not.
- JohnTHaller 9y ago
  The US doesn't have a great firewall they force all data to go through which they utilize to weaponize javascript served from their own companies to international citizens. China does this. They used their great firewall to modify Baidu javascript to serve malware to international users to turn web browsers into a DDoS against github. All because github hosted projects that allowed Chinese citizens to read the uncensored web. So, no, you can't trust anything hosted in mainland China. And, no, it's not the same as the US.
coldtea 9y ago
How's that different for any other country?
- arihant 9y ago
  Due process, transparency, the option to overthrow the government. China has none of these. Hell, their government can ban the words "net neutrality" and "freedom" if they want to tomorrow, with no protest or recourse options. Very few countries have these kinds of constraints on companies.

mkl 9y ago

Wener seems to be Chinese and working for a Chinese company [1]. They didn't state their reasons for not trusting Alibaba clearly, but that doesn't mean they're speaking from ignorance or prejudice. I have no solid opinion myself, as I have no real knowledge either way. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12478652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12478652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12478772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12478772

jansho 9y ago

I think we are also conditioned to not trust China. Certainly in the U.K. coverage about China is always negative, from dog stews to mafia-styled political stories. And of course the fact that China is gobbling so much and so fast ... Alibaba is apparently much bigger than Google and Amazon combined. Who's to say that Alibaba isn't the commercial face of the Chinese government? I think that's what we're really wary about. Rational or irrational, we're definitely jealous, so whatever, that's high compliment for China. But China really is becoming a super, which means it's a threat to the old order. In South East Asia, it was once unthinkable to not see the US as an ally. Now this is shifting, for better or for worse cough South China Sea