6 ms·

Why? What will Chinese government do to you that American government wont?

gonyea 9y ago
Give your data/source to a domestic competitor? Because they would absolutely do that. Be less naive when it comes to China.
- anonicasjuly 9y ago
  You should probably take your own advice. Airbus to sue over US-German spying row http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32542140 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32542140
  - gonyea 9y ago
    Are you kidding? Spying to see if they're violating trade embargoes == Systemic, blatant IP theft from westerners--aided at all levels of the Chinese government and industries? Heh, you're using a throw away account just to go full whataboutism on this comment thread. So brave. Are Wumao into Hacker News now?
    - onli 9y ago
      I might defend the wrong side here, but industrial espionage was a significant part of the NSA scandal. Of course the US agencies are going to give the data they get by siphoning the global internet traffic and by hacking foreign industries to their own domestic industries. And we know that Asia was highly targeted, especially Japan, but also China. Sure, China might be more blatant about that and do it on a higher level, but the US lost all rights to be on the moral high ground with things like that. The US got zero protection for user data. They do read your personal mail and they listen and watch via your webcam silently into your home. Does not get much worse than that.
      - DownGoat 9y ago
        Can you give any example of where the US has been caught giving IP stolen from espionage, to a domestic business purely to give the business a better advantage? Where there the IP had no military or security value? If they did this, which company benefited? Did all domestic companies in the same business get the same deal or only that one single lucky one?
        nl 9y ago
        In the 1990's the CIA was caught spying to attempt to improve the trade deal Hollywood got with France: http://articles.latimes.com/1995-10-11/news/mn-55816_1_cia-officials http://articles.latimes.com/1995-10-11/news/mn-55816_1_cia-o... In 2013 some Snowden papers showed how the CIA spied on the Brazilian oil company Petrobras: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-brazil-oil-petrobras https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-bra... The same papers included a 2009 proposal that the CIA move into industrial espionage: https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use-economic-espionage-benefit-american-corporations/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use.... The CIA says it was never acted on. And there is the Airbus issues too (which were purely to benefit Boeing - there was no military or defense issues with that) However, the official position is that the US spy agencies don't do industrial espionage: https://www.lawfareblog.com/why-did-doj-indict-chinese-military-officers https://www.lawfareblog.com/why-did-doj-indict-chinese-milit... One has to say their actions don't make this particularly clear though.
- pluma 9y ago
  Yes, it's more likely in China because it's more likely to happen in a blatant way, especially between companies directly. But don't kid yourselves that the US intelligence would never pass on trade secrets or confidential information to benefit American competitors. Especially if you consider that they've actually sabotaged foreign companies because of business relations to countries the US doesn't like. FWIW: I would never put confidential information on Chinese infra. But as a non-American I'm only slightly less worried about doing the same with American infra. It's not so much about whether someone will access your confidential information, it's more about who they are.
- anotherbrownguy 9y ago
  >Give your data/source to a domestic competitor? Because they would absolutely do that. Are there known instances of this happening? How do you know they would "absolutely do that"?
  - jjeaff 9y ago
    Just look at their systemic counterfeit, ip theft problem. They can somehow keep a billion people in line and censored and behind a firewall and complacent, but stopping major counterfeit and up theft seems beyond their reach. (hint, it's not, they just don't care).
    - anotherbrownguy 9y ago
      What IP theft? Are there instances where Chinese Patent Office failed to act against IP theft claims?

Give your data/source to a domestic competitor? Because they would absolutely do that. Be less naive when it comes to China.

anonicasjuly 9y ago
You should probably take your own advice. Airbus to sue over US-German spying row http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32542140 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32542140
- gonyea 9y ago
  Are you kidding? Spying to see if they're violating trade embargoes == Systemic, blatant IP theft from westerners--aided at all levels of the Chinese government and industries? Heh, you're using a throw away account just to go full whataboutism on this comment thread. So brave. Are Wumao into Hacker News now?
  - onli 9y ago
    I might defend the wrong side here, but industrial espionage was a significant part of the NSA scandal. Of course the US agencies are going to give the data they get by siphoning the global internet traffic and by hacking foreign industries to their own domestic industries. And we know that Asia was highly targeted, especially Japan, but also China. Sure, China might be more blatant about that and do it on a higher level, but the US lost all rights to be on the moral high ground with things like that. The US got zero protection for user data. They do read your personal mail and they listen and watch via your webcam silently into your home. Does not get much worse than that.
    - DownGoat 9y ago
      Can you give any example of where the US has been caught giving IP stolen from espionage, to a domestic business purely to give the business a better advantage? Where there the IP had no military or security value? If they did this, which company benefited? Did all domestic companies in the same business get the same deal or only that one single lucky one?
      - nl 9y ago
        In the 1990's the CIA was caught spying to attempt to improve the trade deal Hollywood got with France: http://articles.latimes.com/1995-10-11/news/mn-55816_1_cia-officials http://articles.latimes.com/1995-10-11/news/mn-55816_1_cia-o... In 2013 some Snowden papers showed how the CIA spied on the Brazilian oil company Petrobras: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-brazil-oil-petrobras https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-bra... The same papers included a 2009 proposal that the CIA move into industrial espionage: https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use-economic-espionage-benefit-american-corporations/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use.... The CIA says it was never acted on. And there is the Airbus issues too (which were purely to benefit Boeing - there was no military or defense issues with that) However, the official position is that the US spy agencies don't do industrial espionage: https://www.lawfareblog.com/why-did-doj-indict-chinese-military-officers https://www.lawfareblog.com/why-did-doj-indict-chinese-milit... One has to say their actions don't make this particularly clear though.
pluma 9y ago
Yes, it's more likely in China because it's more likely to happen in a blatant way, especially between companies directly. But don't kid yourselves that the US intelligence would never pass on trade secrets or confidential information to benefit American competitors. Especially if you consider that they've actually sabotaged foreign companies because of business relations to countries the US doesn't like. FWIW: I would never put confidential information on Chinese infra. But as a non-American I'm only slightly less worried about doing the same with American infra. It's not so much about whether someone will access your confidential information, it's more about who they are.
anotherbrownguy 9y ago
>Give your data/source to a domestic competitor? Because they would absolutely do that. Are there known instances of this happening? How do you know they would "absolutely do that"?
- jjeaff 9y ago
  Just look at their systemic counterfeit, ip theft problem. They can somehow keep a billion people in line and censored and behind a firewall and complacent, but stopping major counterfeit and up theft seems beyond their reach. (hint, it's not, they just don't care).
  - anotherbrownguy 9y ago
    What IP theft? Are there instances where Chinese Patent Office failed to act against IP theft claims?