4 ms·

You must not be familiar with how unions work, which is understandable. A union employer can ONLY hire union employees to do the class of job the union provides

by kobeya 9y ago

You must not be familiar with how unions work, which is understandable. A union employer can ONLY hire union employees to do the class of job the union provides. The employer does not have the option to hire non-union workers for those roles as long as the union contract is in effect. This enforced depending on the jurisdiction either in contracts or by government regulations.

Animats 9y ago
No, that's a closed shop, which has been illegal in the US since 1947. The usual arrangement in the US is a "union shop", where new non-union employees can be hired, but must join the union. In "right to work" states (mostly the ones that used to have slavery), union shops are prohibited.
- kobeya 9y ago
  > non-union employees can be hired, but must join the union That amounts to the same thing.
- Bartweiss 9y ago
  > "union shop", where new non-union employees can be hired, but must join the union This retains the problem that you have to join the union, and therefore are immediately subject to the union's negotiated rules on seniority, pay scale, benefits, etc. It's better than a closed shop, but doesn't solve the problem at hand here.
xapata 9y ago
Even so, the 2nd point still holds -- if the union discourages good employees and employees truly are not commodity, then the non-union shop should put the union shop out of business.
tallanvor 9y ago
This varies significantly depending on where you are. In Norway, for example, there are 3 main IT unions (and some specialty ones - I think there's one main union for IT workers in finance, for example). Depending on the employer, one or more of the unions may engage in collective bargaining for things like pay structures, yearly raises, and such. My employer doesn't do yearly bargaining with the union - in part, probably, because employees haven't demanded it. The last time the unions had major discussions was when our employer wanted us to sign new contracts, and the unions negotiated to make sure we weren't going to be prevented from doing things outside of work. Generally speaking, the only reason union members bring in the union these days is if they're being terminated, and the union helps make sure it was done properly and works to get the worker the best package possible.

by kobeya 9y ago

Animats 9y ago

No, that's a closed shop, which has been illegal in the US since 1947. The usual arrangement in the US is a "union shop", where new non-union employees can be hired, but must join the union. In "right to work" states (mostly the ones that used to have slavery), union shops are prohibited.

kobeya 9y ago
> non-union employees can be hired, but must join the union That amounts to the same thing.
Bartweiss 9y ago
> "union shop", where new non-union employees can be hired, but must join the union This retains the problem that you have to join the union, and therefore are immediately subject to the union's negotiated rules on seniority, pay scale, benefits, etc. It's better than a closed shop, but doesn't solve the problem at hand here.

xapata 9y ago

Even so, the 2nd point still holds -- if the union discourages good employees and employees truly are not commodity, then the non-union shop should put the union shop out of business.

tallanvor 9y ago

This varies significantly depending on where you are. In Norway, for example, there are 3 main IT unions (and some specialty ones - I think there's one main union for IT workers in finance, for example). Depending on the employer, one or more of the unions may engage in collective bargaining for things like pay structures, yearly raises, and such. My employer doesn't do yearly bargaining with the union - in part, probably, because employees haven't demanded it. The last time the unions had major discussions was when our employer wanted us to sign new contracts, and the unions negotiated to make sure we weren't going to be prevented from doing things outside of work. Generally speaking, the only reason union members bring in the union these days is if they're being terminated, and the union helps make sure it was done properly and works to get the worker the best package possible.