13 ms·

My Father’s Weakness for Beer Never Lessened His Strengths

107 points by DiabloD3 9y ago

icantdrive55 9y ago
Really good story. Really good writing. I wasen't expecting this. I thought it would be another blame the alcoholic father. My dad was an alcoholic. He died of a football sized tumor in his liver. It went undiagnosed for at least a decade. The doctor thought it was just scar tissue from a previous umbilical hernia operation. Now my father was a piece of work, but it wasen't the alcohol that made him difficult to be around. It was just his personality. He was actually more pleasant to be around when he was drinking. As to his drinking, and driving. Some of you will question what I'm going to say, but he was a better driver when drinking. I know blasphemy, but true. It could be that he was more coordinated than the average person, or that he was driving daily since he was 14. Yes, he drive to high school in the Richmond district in San Francisco. Forget the high school, but that actress in West side Story, and Rebel without a Cause--Natalie Wood went to. It was Lincoln high. His could I forget that school? Any who, he was the good driver sober, or after a few. And he was a functional alcoholic. He never missed work due to a hang over. Then again it was a different era. Drinking on the job was almost encouraged. Yes--union electricians could drink beer if doing something mundane. It wouldn't happen these days, but did back in the day. He was very conservative guy, but always kinda nervous. It could have been genes(he was Irish), or just his personality? He used to say if opium wasen't illegial, I think I would like the effect. Later on life, I knew what he was getting at. I don't know the alternative to alcohol is. It's not benzodiazepines, anti-depressants, or opium. You would think by now, we would have a safe drug to take tge edge off? And no, he tried all the strains of marijuana. It just name him more nervous. Anyways, keep up the truthful--honest writing. Don't sellout.
- rdtsc 9y ago
  Thanks for sharing. > but it wasn't the alcohol that made him difficult to be around. It was just his personality. I've heard of that and that people often use alcohol to self-medicate or to ease social anxiety for example. They soon enough learn that they can function better if they drink. My grandfather was a bit that way, I only have fond memories of him being warm, and kind when he was drunk. When sober he was mean, cold and not very approachable. He fought in the WW2 and drove the Germans all the way to Berlin, got wounded twice, saw pretty horrible things I imagine, but never talked about it. But probably had some effect on his drinking as well.
- falsedan 9y ago
  > It was Lincoln high. His could I forget that school? Unless it moved, Abraham Lincoln High School is in Outer Sunset, at 22nd-24th & Quintara-Santiago, and Natalia Wood lived in Santa Rosa when her family lived in the Bay Area, & graduated from Van Nuys HS in LA. George Washington High School is in Outer Richmond, at 32nd Ave.
gregorymichael 9y ago
I have a 2.5 year old daughter. Beer doesn't do much for me, but that made me weepy.
ilamont 9y ago
Mentioning "high-functioning alcoholic" reminded me of a story about Churchill's drinking habits (and a modern-day journalist being unable to match it): He died 50 years ago this month - the anniversary of his funeral will be marked later this week -- at the ripe age of 90. A miracle, considering he had drunk an estimated 42,000 bottles of Pol Roger champagne through his life; he thought nothing of starting the morning with cold game and a glass of hock and ending it at 3am with the best part of a bottle of cognac. (via http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/drinks/the-day-i-tried-to-match-churchill-drink-for-drink/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/drinks/the-day-i-t...) Churchill was nevertheless able to write numerous political tracts, pamphlets, speeches, a six-volume history of the first world war, a six-volume history of the second world war, and a four-volume history of the English speaking people. He won the Nobel Prize for literature, and throughout his long political career served as Home Secretary, Minister of Defense, Chancellor of the Exchequer, and PM (twice).
- ellius 9y ago
  Alcohol is a problem exactly insofar as it negatively affects your life. The problem is that, like all drugs—indeed, all vices of any kind—the thing itself is exactly what will convince you that it's not causing problems. If you live a long, full life, if your health and relationships aren't suffering, who's to say there's anything wrong with it? But it's very hard for an individual in it to know that those things are true.
  - justonepost 9y ago
    It all adds up. The evidence is pretty broad and conclusive that alcohol is neurotoxic and reduces your life span. It's important that we do make clear to our children the dangers so they don't fall into addiction out of complacency. All to often cigarette smoking and drinking is normalized. Now of course we have to deal with marijuana. Have a few glasses once a month is probably ok, same for other drugs I am sure. But it's all too easy to slip into habit. There are ways to create joy In your life that don't require chemicals. We don't teach our children about this enough. Stories like this could stressed that.
lloydde 9y ago
Did I miss where in the article the OP describes his alcoholic habits? Established his weakness for beer? I don't doubt that her father was, but it felt weird that I missed his alcoholism. Was it regularly having a beer in a to-go-cup?
- Mz 9y ago
  He apparently drank even while driving. And also drank while visiting relatives when he had to make the long drive back because his wife did not drive.
  - chrismeller 9y ago
    There's no mention of when this was. It's easy to judge past events by our modern morals and laws, but keep in mind that those weren't always the same. Even within the baby boomers' lifetimes standards were drastically different... Personally, I think the better example is that his wife was constantly arguing with him about it. Regardless of the actual standards at the time, he was apparently routinely crossing the line with the woman that presumably loved him and bore his children. Of course just as the author tacitly accepts alcoholism because of her upbringing it's possible her mother is the exact opposite because of hers, but it seems unlikely...
    - Mz 9y ago
      I wasn't judging anything. I was just giving a TLDR of the drinking habits referenced in the article. My father drank pretty heavily. No one in the family ever called him an alcoholic. He quit after he left the army, having fought in the front lines of two wars. I think he drank to quiet the nightmares so he could sleep. He was already dead (at about age 89) when I finally realized that for all that he was a raconteur who told endless stories, he never told war stories about WW2. His stories about Vietnam were told humorously. If Vietnam was joke-worthy, WW2 was apparently unspeakable. I am the last person who would be judgy about this story.
      - chrismeller 9y ago
peterwwillis 9y ago
How did this get to the front page?
- flyGuyOnTheSly 9y ago
  I have a drink in my hand right now and found the story entertaining so I upvoted it.
  - dingo_bat 9y ago
    I am in office right now but would rather have a drink in my hand so I upvoted it.
- bdcravens 9y ago
  There's a pretty strong drinking culture among the hacker crowd. I feel many have their doubts, and want reassurance.
  - rf15 9y ago
    As somebody who doesn't drink and considering that people are usually not drinking on the job, I cannot tell, but yes, I think the critical thinking part coming along with this job might lead to people getting more into drinking to cope than average. (just speculation)
    - bdcravens 9y ago
      I think it's has a lot to do with the cultural landscape you're in. Among the younger, "startupy" crowd it's more prevalent than Hanselman's hidden 99%.
- djohnston 9y ago
  it received votes
rabboRubble 9y ago
I had a relative that was a high functioning alcoholic, until he wasn't. He could show up to family functions, be completely charming and entertaining, and still was a degenerate alcoholic drinker in private to the suffering of his family. After many attempts at sobriety, he finally died in a hot tub. He was found much later than one would want if cleaning up was a concern. Think "soup". My relative, his wife, was questioned and presumed a murderer until a full investigation was concluded. “I’ll sleep when I’m dead"... indeed. This author's fetishization of the father's drinking habit creeps me out a bit.
- HiroshiSan 9y ago
  It's very human to idolize your father, see them more than human, a super hero.
  - rabboRubble 9y ago
    For me, the creep factor is a bit more than normal father idolization. Smacks of a alcoholic's family structure enabler / hero archetypes: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/adult-children-addicted-alcoholic-parents/168187-roles-alcoholic-family.html http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/adult-children-addicted-... Don't get me wrong, I'm sympathetic to the author. Just hits a bit too close to home to some farked up family dynamics. There is nothing romantic about remembering your father by cracking a crappy beer and keeping a pull tab.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    It's also human to approach life as "we are all gonna die anyway, let's have fun while at it", even if it means a bad liver from alcohol or a broken spine from some extreme sport...
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - rf15 9y ago
    I'd argue idolization itself is a bad habit of people. Doesn't mean you can't appreciate people's work or strive to be more like them in their positive properties, but idolization itself is blind faith, which is not a good thing to have.
ada1981 9y ago
No need for judgement. But I'm wondering if she has had the opportunity to grieve a childhood with a father who was checked out emotionally and how that relationship has laid a foundation for how she relates to her partner and the world. No need to "judge", but if she's still seeing her father as super human, she's probably got some healing to do to allow him, and her, to be ok with their humanity.
xrange 9y ago
Anyone have stats on rates of alcohol use over time, compared to other medications? For example, maybe people are using anti-depressants instead of medicating themselves with alcohol?
rbosinger 9y ago
Seriously not trying to undermine the reality of this article but something made me think here. I thought it was worth sharing. I keep trying to drink beer out of my coffee travel mug but I find the walking motion really flattens it and makes it unbearable. Vodka and Gatorade works better here. I'd like beer though. Could someone invent a cup that can carry beer without ruining the carbonation?
- icanhackit 9y ago
  Gimballed drink holders exist, chiefly for boating, but you seem to want a gimballed cup that is meant for carrying rather than mounting to something. This kind of falls short of being a gimballed cup but seems neat nonetheless: https://www.3dagogo.com/EricYoung/designs/GimbalDrinkHolder https://www.3dagogo.com/EricYoung/designs/GimbalDrinkHolder
minademian 9y ago
good essay. i like the somber tone that neither glorifies nor pscyhologies her father's disease.
unixhero 9y ago
Too sad. Shouldn't have read. Now I can't unread it. Darnit!:) Well written piece.
aleden 9y ago
"The good deeds a man has done before defend him." (Oppenheimer)
johndoez 9y ago
I like drinking from time to time, but the hangovers put me off, which is nature's way of saying, leave off. If I have more than four drinks I have to spend the next day in bed. I simply can't function. I know a couple of alcoholics and neither suffer from hangovers (or ever have done). When I read "functional alcoholic" I think of someone who doesn't suffer from hangovers.
- havetocharge 9y ago
  I'm the same way. Four drinks is too much for me. I usually feel I the next day after 2. I.enjoy drinking for the duration of the act, and every moment after that is mostly regret.

107 points by DiabloD3 9y ago

Really good story. Really good writing. I wasen't expecting this. I thought it would be another blame the alcoholic father. My dad was an alcoholic. He died of a football sized tumor in his liver. It went undiagnosed for at least a decade. The doctor thought it was just scar tissue from a previous umbilical hernia operation. Now my father was a piece of work, but it wasen't the alcohol that made him difficult to be around. It was just his personality. He was actually more pleasant to be around when he was drinking. As to his drinking, and driving. Some of you will question what I'm going to say, but he was a better driver when drinking. I know blasphemy, but true. It could be that he was more coordinated than the average person, or that he was driving daily since he was 14. Yes, he drive to high school in the Richmond district in San Francisco. Forget the high school, but that actress in West side Story, and Rebel without a Cause--Natalie Wood went to. It was Lincoln high. His could I forget that school? Any who, he was the good driver sober, or after a few. And he was a functional alcoholic. He never missed work due to a hang over. Then again it was a different era. Drinking on the job was almost encouraged. Yes--union electricians could drink beer if doing something mundane. It wouldn't happen these days, but did back in the day. He was very conservative guy, but always kinda nervous. It could have been genes(he was Irish), or just his personality? He used to say if opium wasen't illegial, I think I would like the effect. Later on life, I knew what he was getting at. I don't know the alternative to alcohol is. It's not benzodiazepines, anti-depressants, or opium. You would think by now, we would have a safe drug to take tge edge off? And no, he tried all the strains of marijuana. It just name him more nervous. Anyways, keep up the truthful--honest writing. Don't sellout.

rdtsc 9y ago
Thanks for sharing. > but it wasn't the alcohol that made him difficult to be around. It was just his personality. I've heard of that and that people often use alcohol to self-medicate or to ease social anxiety for example. They soon enough learn that they can function better if they drink. My grandfather was a bit that way, I only have fond memories of him being warm, and kind when he was drunk. When sober he was mean, cold and not very approachable. He fought in the WW2 and drove the Germans all the way to Berlin, got wounded twice, saw pretty horrible things I imagine, but never talked about it. But probably had some effect on his drinking as well.
falsedan 9y ago
> It was Lincoln high. His could I forget that school? Unless it moved, Abraham Lincoln High School is in Outer Sunset, at 22nd-24th & Quintara-Santiago, and Natalia Wood lived in Santa Rosa when her family lived in the Bay Area, & graduated from Van Nuys HS in LA. George Washington High School is in Outer Richmond, at 32nd Ave.

gregorymichael 9y ago

I have a 2.5 year old daughter. Beer doesn't do much for me, but that made me weepy.

ilamont 9y ago

Mentioning "high-functioning alcoholic" reminded me of a story about Churchill's drinking habits (and a modern-day journalist being unable to match it): He died 50 years ago this month - the anniversary of his funeral will be marked later this week -- at the ripe age of 90. A miracle, considering he had drunk an estimated 42,000 bottles of Pol Roger champagne through his life; he thought nothing of starting the morning with cold game and a glass of hock and ending it at 3am with the best part of a bottle of cognac. (via http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/drinks/the-day-i-tried-to-match-churchill-drink-for-drink/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/drinks/the-day-i-t...) Churchill was nevertheless able to write numerous political tracts, pamphlets, speeches, a six-volume history of the first world war, a six-volume history of the second world war, and a four-volume history of the English speaking people. He won the Nobel Prize for literature, and throughout his long political career served as Home Secretary, Minister of Defense, Chancellor of the Exchequer, and PM (twice).

ellius 9y ago
Alcohol is a problem exactly insofar as it negatively affects your life. The problem is that, like all drugs—indeed, all vices of any kind—the thing itself is exactly what will convince you that it's not causing problems. If you live a long, full life, if your health and relationships aren't suffering, who's to say there's anything wrong with it? But it's very hard for an individual in it to know that those things are true.
- justonepost 9y ago
  It all adds up. The evidence is pretty broad and conclusive that alcohol is neurotoxic and reduces your life span. It's important that we do make clear to our children the dangers so they don't fall into addiction out of complacency. All to often cigarette smoking and drinking is normalized. Now of course we have to deal with marijuana. Have a few glasses once a month is probably ok, same for other drugs I am sure. But it's all too easy to slip into habit. There are ways to create joy In your life that don't require chemicals. We don't teach our children about this enough. Stories like this could stressed that.

lloydde 9y ago

Did I miss where in the article the OP describes his alcoholic habits? Established his weakness for beer? I don't doubt that her father was, but it felt weird that I missed his alcoholism. Was it regularly having a beer in a to-go-cup?

Mz 9y ago
He apparently drank even while driving. And also drank while visiting relatives when he had to make the long drive back because his wife did not drive.
- chrismeller 9y ago
  There's no mention of when this was. It's easy to judge past events by our modern morals and laws, but keep in mind that those weren't always the same. Even within the baby boomers' lifetimes standards were drastically different... Personally, I think the better example is that his wife was constantly arguing with him about it. Regardless of the actual standards at the time, he was apparently routinely crossing the line with the woman that presumably loved him and bore his children. Of course just as the author tacitly accepts alcoholism because of her upbringing it's possible her mother is the exact opposite because of hers, but it seems unlikely...
  - Mz 9y ago
    I wasn't judging anything. I was just giving a TLDR of the drinking habits referenced in the article. My father drank pretty heavily. No one in the family ever called him an alcoholic. He quit after he left the army, having fought in the front lines of two wars. I think he drank to quiet the nightmares so he could sleep. He was already dead (at about age 89) when I finally realized that for all that he was a raconteur who told endless stories, he never told war stories about WW2. His stories about Vietnam were told humorously. If Vietnam was joke-worthy, WW2 was apparently unspeakable. I am the last person who would be judgy about this story.
    - chrismeller 9y ago

peterwwillis 9y ago

How did this get to the front page?

flyGuyOnTheSly 9y ago
I have a drink in my hand right now and found the story entertaining so I upvoted it.
- dingo_bat 9y ago
  I am in office right now but would rather have a drink in my hand so I upvoted it.
bdcravens 9y ago
There's a pretty strong drinking culture among the hacker crowd. I feel many have their doubts, and want reassurance.
- rf15 9y ago
  As somebody who doesn't drink and considering that people are usually not drinking on the job, I cannot tell, but yes, I think the critical thinking part coming along with this job might lead to people getting more into drinking to cope than average. (just speculation)
  - bdcravens 9y ago
    I think it's has a lot to do with the cultural landscape you're in. Among the younger, "startupy" crowd it's more prevalent than Hanselman's hidden 99%.
djohnston 9y ago
it received votes

rabboRubble 9y ago

I had a relative that was a high functioning alcoholic, until he wasn't. He could show up to family functions, be completely charming and entertaining, and still was a degenerate alcoholic drinker in private to the suffering of his family. After many attempts at sobriety, he finally died in a hot tub. He was found much later than one would want if cleaning up was a concern. Think "soup". My relative, his wife, was questioned and presumed a murderer until a full investigation was concluded. “I’ll sleep when I’m dead"... indeed. This author's fetishization of the father's drinking habit creeps me out a bit.

HiroshiSan 9y ago
It's very human to idolize your father, see them more than human, a super hero.
- rabboRubble 9y ago
  For me, the creep factor is a bit more than normal father idolization. Smacks of a alcoholic's family structure enabler / hero archetypes: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/adult-children-addicted-alcoholic-parents/168187-roles-alcoholic-family.html http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/adult-children-addicted-... Don't get me wrong, I'm sympathetic to the author. Just hits a bit too close to home to some farked up family dynamics. There is nothing romantic about remembering your father by cracking a crappy beer and keeping a pull tab.
- coldtea 9y ago
  It's also human to approach life as "we are all gonna die anyway, let's have fun while at it", even if it means a bad liver from alcohol or a broken spine from some extreme sport...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- rf15 9y ago
  I'd argue idolization itself is a bad habit of people. Doesn't mean you can't appreciate people's work or strive to be more like them in their positive properties, but idolization itself is blind faith, which is not a good thing to have.

ada1981 9y ago

No need for judgement. But I'm wondering if she has had the opportunity to grieve a childhood with a father who was checked out emotionally and how that relationship has laid a foundation for how she relates to her partner and the world. No need to "judge", but if she's still seeing her father as super human, she's probably got some healing to do to allow him, and her, to be ok with their humanity.

xrange 9y ago

Anyone have stats on rates of alcohol use over time, compared to other medications? For example, maybe people are using anti-depressants instead of medicating themselves with alcohol?

rbosinger 9y ago

Seriously not trying to undermine the reality of this article but something made me think here. I thought it was worth sharing. I keep trying to drink beer out of my coffee travel mug but I find the walking motion really flattens it and makes it unbearable. Vodka and Gatorade works better here. I'd like beer though. Could someone invent a cup that can carry beer without ruining the carbonation?

icanhackit 9y ago
Gimballed drink holders exist, chiefly for boating, but you seem to want a gimballed cup that is meant for carrying rather than mounting to something. This kind of falls short of being a gimballed cup but seems neat nonetheless: https://www.3dagogo.com/EricYoung/designs/GimbalDrinkHolder https://www.3dagogo.com/EricYoung/designs/GimbalDrinkHolder

minademian 9y ago

good essay. i like the somber tone that neither glorifies nor pscyhologies her father's disease.

unixhero 9y ago

Too sad. Shouldn't have read. Now I can't unread it. Darnit!:) Well written piece.

aleden 9y ago

"The good deeds a man has done before defend him." (Oppenheimer)

johndoez 9y ago

I like drinking from time to time, but the hangovers put me off, which is nature's way of saying, leave off. If I have more than four drinks I have to spend the next day in bed. I simply can't function. I know a couple of alcoholics and neither suffer from hangovers (or ever have done). When I read "functional alcoholic" I think of someone who doesn't suffer from hangovers.

havetocharge 9y ago
I'm the same way. Four drinks is too much for me. I usually feel I the next day after 2. I.enjoy drinking for the duration of the act, and every moment after that is mostly regret.