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I've seen video of police in Australia who are unarmed run away from armed criminals. It's pretty humiliating.

by jxramos 9y ago

valuearb 9y ago
Yes, but how many innocent citizens have they killed? I think a little humiliation is tolerable if it saves lives.
- jxramos 9y ago
  touché, it's a valid question for sure. Not sure how the figures net out in total, i.e. lives lost because a law enforcement officer could not disable the threat vs innocents taken out. I'm not sure the former is a very quantifiable thing, and the later is clearly measurable. I've also been curious about that question in its more generic form, i.e. not just armed law enforcement but any citizen able to stop a threat.
askvictor 9y ago
Where/when? Australian police officers are generally armed when on duty to my knowledge.
- jxramos 9y ago
  I saw it here https://youtu.be/BBrN-ax2eJA?t=118 https://youtu.be/BBrN-ax2eJA?t=118. Looks like the cop pulls up in a car, and then officer drives off, not the same thing I realize about being unarmed. I might have confused the unarmed police with the British bobbies perhaps. I thought I heard somewhere Australian police don't carry firearms.
  - jxramos 9y ago
    I stand corrected. "Unlike some other countries under the Commonwealth such as Great Britain itself, Australian state and federal police routinely carry firearms. While on duty, most officers' duty belts consist of: a handgun, a Taser, an expandable baton, pepper spray, a set of handcuffs, ammunition magazines, gloves, torch and a two-way radio." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_Australia
tptacek 9y ago
Serious question: so what? We shouldn't design public policy around the self-esteem of individual police officers, should we?
- StavrosK 9y ago
  I think this is the exact point that the US police force isn't getting. It's okay to run away from an armed thief. It's not okay to kill a thief. It's not okay to kill people for simple theft, and certainly fucking not for "smoking marijuana in front of a kid".
- jxramos 9y ago
  I'd agree the feelings of individuals should generally not drive policy on such matters. I should have wrote pathetic in place of humiliating, since that better communicates the weakness of the structure of the setup rather than the focus on any individual. Mine was a commentary much like the fun poked at here with the "security monitor" bit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8FNVsbnwWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8FNVsbnwWE
  - tptacek 9y ago
    I don't think we should care what Youtube commenters find pathetic. Or even what reasonable people find pathetic. The individual dignity of police officers is not a top-tier policy concern.

I've seen video of police in Australia who are unarmed run away from armed criminals. It's pretty humiliating.

valuearb 9y ago

Yes, but how many innocent citizens have they killed? I think a little humiliation is tolerable if it saves lives.

jxramos 9y ago
touché, it's a valid question for sure. Not sure how the figures net out in total, i.e. lives lost because a law enforcement officer could not disable the threat vs innocents taken out. I'm not sure the former is a very quantifiable thing, and the later is clearly measurable. I've also been curious about that question in its more generic form, i.e. not just armed law enforcement but any citizen able to stop a threat.

askvictor 9y ago

Where/when? Australian police officers are generally armed when on duty to my knowledge.

jxramos 9y ago
I saw it here https://youtu.be/BBrN-ax2eJA?t=118 https://youtu.be/BBrN-ax2eJA?t=118. Looks like the cop pulls up in a car, and then officer drives off, not the same thing I realize about being unarmed. I might have confused the unarmed police with the British bobbies perhaps. I thought I heard somewhere Australian police don't carry firearms.
- jxramos 9y ago
  I stand corrected. "Unlike some other countries under the Commonwealth such as Great Britain itself, Australian state and federal police routinely carry firearms. While on duty, most officers' duty belts consist of: a handgun, a Taser, an expandable baton, pepper spray, a set of handcuffs, ammunition magazines, gloves, torch and a two-way radio." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_Australia

tptacek 9y ago

Serious question: so what? We shouldn't design public policy around the self-esteem of individual police officers, should we?

StavrosK 9y ago
I think this is the exact point that the US police force isn't getting. It's okay to run away from an armed thief. It's not okay to kill a thief. It's not okay to kill people for simple theft, and certainly fucking not for "smoking marijuana in front of a kid".
jxramos 9y ago
I'd agree the feelings of individuals should generally not drive policy on such matters. I should have wrote pathetic in place of humiliating, since that better communicates the weakness of the structure of the setup rather than the focus on any individual. Mine was a commentary much like the fun poked at here with the "security monitor" bit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8FNVsbnwWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8FNVsbnwWE
- tptacek 9y ago
  I don't think we should care what Youtube commenters find pathetic. Or even what reasonable people find pathetic. The individual dignity of police officers is not a top-tier policy concern.