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> As de Toqueville predicted over two centuries ago, democracy will end by everyone voting themselves pay raises until the economy is wrecked, then we'll start

by steego 9y ago

> As de Toqueville predicted over two centuries ago, democracy will end by everyone voting themselves pay raises until the economy is wrecked, then we'll start to blame and kill each other over it. You made some good points about the modern using viral outrage to degrade public discourse and parts of our social fabric and how it affects how informed and cohesive the voting populace participates. However, then you took what I thought was a very disconnected turn that betrays your first premise. Let me ask you, how does a fractured and misinformed populace vote themselves pay raises? It seems to me special interest groups have done an incredible job of making sure people are divided on just about every important issue and then hijacking the legislative process for each of those issues. If you look at health care industry, you will notice they give to both sides of the aisle and have played a big role in shaping both the ACA and the repeals of the ACA. While the changes in policies in health care policy will have a big impact on us (either in increased costs, or reduction in coverage), the health care providers and insurance companies will benefit from both the ACA and any law that repeals the ACA because unlike us, they are not divided in their objectives. I see the world as a number of possible futures, and I don't dismiss de Tocqueville's prediction, but I don't think that's reflected in the current landscape. I think people are entirely too manipulated to be smart enough to vote themselves a pay raise, and I think special interests have done an exceptional job of influence government policy to maximize their interests. I too suspect we might crush the economy with a tremendous amount of debt, but I think it will be the special interest groups that will figure out how to bleed us dry before people vote themselves a pay raise. It could also be a mix of both scenarios.

stcredzero 9y ago
Let me ask you, how does a fractured and misinformed populace vote themselves pay raises? Let's set aside the question of how we'd get something like Basic Income in the first place. Let's assume it exists. If something like that exists already, then people could well be united in wanting to increase their income. In that case, the utterly fractured discourse would guarantee that rational voices explaining why this is a bad idea would be completely drowned out, leaving the issue to be decided by people's short sighted self interest. I think people are entirely too manipulated to be smart enough to vote themselves a pay raise I think people are entirely too manipulated to think clearly about voting themselves a pay raise. I too suspect we might crush the economy with a tremendous amount of debt, but I think it will be the special interest groups that will figure out how to bleed us dry before people vote themselves a pay raise. It could also be a mix of both scenarios. It will be a mix of both scenarios, and a fractured public unable to discuss anything rationally will enable the pathological government decision making.

by steego 9y ago

stcredzero 9y ago

Let me ask you, how does a fractured and misinformed populace vote themselves pay raises? Let's set aside the question of how we'd get something like Basic Income in the first place. Let's assume it exists. If something like that exists already, then people could well be united in wanting to increase their income. In that case, the utterly fractured discourse would guarantee that rational voices explaining why this is a bad idea would be completely drowned out, leaving the issue to be decided by people's short sighted self interest. I think people are entirely too manipulated to be smart enough to vote themselves a pay raise I think people are entirely too manipulated to think clearly about voting themselves a pay raise. I too suspect we might crush the economy with a tremendous amount of debt, but I think it will be the special interest groups that will figure out how to bleed us dry before people vote themselves a pay raise. It could also be a mix of both scenarios. It will be a mix of both scenarios, and a fractured public unable to discuss anything rationally will enable the pathological government decision making.