4 ms·

The author's characterization of leadership sounds to me a lot like clinical depression. This isn't altogether surprising to me, as I keep stumbling upon pieces

by lmkg 16y ago

The author's characterization of leadership sounds to me a lot like clinical depression. This isn't altogether surprising to me, as I keep stumbling upon pieces of research or philosophy suggesting that depression has an evolutionary purpose. I think the essential property is that a depressive isn't able to ignore important problems the way a normal, functional person is able to, especially long-term problems. The hitch is being able to address those problems, rather than being overwhelmed by them.

mikemainguy 16y ago
I listened to the 2004 intro to Psych lectures by professor Wolfe at MIT. I thought it interesting that he pointed out that depressives have a more accurate portrayal of reality and how thing really are than "normal" people.
- loewenskind 16y ago
  But did he say how much of this was because they themselves make it this way? If you're depressed about e.g. not being able to get a girl then you'll probably do things that make you appear creepy and you won't be able to get a girl. Contrast that with a normal person who believes in themselves. Sometimes they're wrong but they're not affected by (negative) self fulfilling prophecy.
  - dhimes 16y ago
    I don't know what Wolfe said, but something I was reading a while back said (to a first-order approximation, anyway): optimistic/non-depressive people take credit when things go well and blame things beyond their control when they don't go well. Depressives tend to own up to their responsibility for things that don't go well much more accurately (by "accurate" they meant, as I recall, what impartial observers would agree would be the case). For example, an officer at Big Investment House would credit his own brilliance for making bajillions of dollars, but blame the collapse of his foolish enterprise on Regulators/Sun spots/Everybody ELSE being too goddamn greedy. EDIT: typo office -> officer
    - loewenskind 16y ago
      I'm still not convinced. I had a bought with (suicidal) depression for several years (brain injury) and it's true that I didn't take credit for things I didn't do, but instead I blamed myself for everything, even things way beyond my control (e.g. "It happened this way because you deserve to be miserable"). Many things I evaluated to being beyond me, and sure enough they were. Because having convinced myself I couldn't do it or wasn't worthy, any effort I made was half-hearted or actually negative. Which lead to more depression. Now maybe I'm too optimistic about what I can do sometimes, but I think you get further that way because sometimes you talk yourself into things that "on paper" should have been beyond you. Maybe I was more accurate before. But it was because I was skewing the results. Also note that it's easier to think you can't do something and then fail when you could have succeeded than to think you can do something and succeed when you otherwise would not (i.e. it's easier for your own belief to skew results on the negative side than the positive).
Perceval 16y ago
There's a psychological condition known as "depressive realism" which seems relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism , http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr05/realism.aspx http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr05/realism.aspx , http://www.slate.com/id/2129377 http://www.slate.com/id/2129377

by lmkg 16y ago

mikemainguy 16y ago

I listened to the 2004 intro to Psych lectures by professor Wolfe at MIT. I thought it interesting that he pointed out that depressives have a more accurate portrayal of reality and how thing really are than "normal" people.

loewenskind 16y ago
But did he say how much of this was because they themselves make it this way? If you're depressed about e.g. not being able to get a girl then you'll probably do things that make you appear creepy and you won't be able to get a girl. Contrast that with a normal person who believes in themselves. Sometimes they're wrong but they're not affected by (negative) self fulfilling prophecy.
- dhimes 16y ago
  I don't know what Wolfe said, but something I was reading a while back said (to a first-order approximation, anyway): optimistic/non-depressive people take credit when things go well and blame things beyond their control when they don't go well. Depressives tend to own up to their responsibility for things that don't go well much more accurately (by "accurate" they meant, as I recall, what impartial observers would agree would be the case). For example, an officer at Big Investment House would credit his own brilliance for making bajillions of dollars, but blame the collapse of his foolish enterprise on Regulators/Sun spots/Everybody ELSE being too goddamn greedy. EDIT: typo office -> officer
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    I'm still not convinced. I had a bought with (suicidal) depression for several years (brain injury) and it's true that I didn't take credit for things I didn't do, but instead I blamed myself for everything, even things way beyond my control (e.g. "It happened this way because you deserve to be miserable"). Many things I evaluated to being beyond me, and sure enough they were. Because having convinced myself I couldn't do it or wasn't worthy, any effort I made was half-hearted or actually negative. Which lead to more depression. Now maybe I'm too optimistic about what I can do sometimes, but I think you get further that way because sometimes you talk yourself into things that "on paper" should have been beyond you. Maybe I was more accurate before. But it was because I was skewing the results. Also note that it's easier to think you can't do something and then fail when you could have succeeded than to think you can do something and succeed when you otherwise would not (i.e. it's easier for your own belief to skew results on the negative side than the positive).

Perceval 16y ago

There's a psychological condition known as "depressive realism" which seems relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism , http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr05/realism.aspx http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr05/realism.aspx , http://www.slate.com/id/2129377 http://www.slate.com/id/2129377