3 ms·

it hurts some people (those who want to live in SF), but it helps other people (those who already live there), pretty much like any other resource with finite a

it hurts some people (those who want to live in SF), but it helps other people (those who already live there), pretty much like any other resource with finite availability

davidw 9y ago
Yes, a bunch of rich people get richer, and the poor get poorer because they can't access jobs in one of the most productive, wealthy parts of the country. All because we don't allow the market to function properly. Seems like a failure to me. Here's Ed Glaeser: "Reforming local land use controls is one of those rare areas in which the libertarian and the progressive agree. The current system restricts the freedom of the property owner, and also makes life harder for poorer Americans. The politics of zoning reform may be hard, but our land use regulations are badly in need of rethinking." https://www.brookings.edu/research/reforming-land-use-regulations/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/reforming-land-use-regula...
- kofejnik 9y ago
  To the contrary, this is market functioning properly - people have something which they are reluctant to share with other people, so they don't. Do you suggest to force them? This will not be a "proper functioning market", you know. Next, somebody will say that having rich people is bad altogether so let's just share money equally.
  - davidw 9y ago
    > so they don't That would be the case if we were talking about their own property, but they're using rules and regulations to force other people to not do what they want with their property. In a healthy market, yeah, some people would not sell out and change would be gradual as the city built up incrementally. That's how things should be, but we do not allow that.
    - Danihan 9y ago
      You mean they are doing that via democratically elected political representation? The horror. How dare people elect politicians to represent their own interests, rather than the interests of the allegedly marginalized.
      - jmanderley 9y ago
        So what? Doesn't mean we aren't allowed to criticize them representing their "own interest"/rent seeking.
        Danihan 9y ago
        Sure, you can criticize and they can ignore it. Worry about making your own city nice, not theirs. That's the whole point of having localized governments.
      - davidw 9y ago
        Zoning - in some places - got a start because people didn't want - to be blunt about it - "the wrong colored people" in their neighborhoods. Absolute majority rule has some serious downsides.
      - wbl 9y ago
        They said that when they chased out Willie Mayes and during the Chinese Laundry cases.

it hurts some people (those who want to live in SF), but it helps other people (those who already live there), pretty much like any other resource with finite availability

davidw 9y ago

Yes, a bunch of rich people get richer, and the poor get poorer because they can't access jobs in one of the most productive, wealthy parts of the country. All because we don't allow the market to function properly. Seems like a failure to me. Here's Ed Glaeser: "Reforming local land use controls is one of those rare areas in which the libertarian and the progressive agree. The current system restricts the freedom of the property owner, and also makes life harder for poorer Americans. The politics of zoning reform may be hard, but our land use regulations are badly in need of rethinking." https://www.brookings.edu/research/reforming-land-use-regulations/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/reforming-land-use-regula...

kofejnik 9y ago
To the contrary, this is market functioning properly - people have something which they are reluctant to share with other people, so they don't. Do you suggest to force them? This will not be a "proper functioning market", you know. Next, somebody will say that having rich people is bad altogether so let's just share money equally.
- davidw 9y ago
  > so they don't That would be the case if we were talking about their own property, but they're using rules and regulations to force other people to not do what they want with their property. In a healthy market, yeah, some people would not sell out and change would be gradual as the city built up incrementally. That's how things should be, but we do not allow that.
  - Danihan 9y ago
    You mean they are doing that via democratically elected political representation? The horror. How dare people elect politicians to represent their own interests, rather than the interests of the allegedly marginalized.
    - jmanderley 9y ago
      So what? Doesn't mean we aren't allowed to criticize them representing their "own interest"/rent seeking.
      - Danihan 9y ago
        Sure, you can criticize and they can ignore it. Worry about making your own city nice, not theirs. That's the whole point of having localized governments.
    - davidw 9y ago
      Zoning - in some places - got a start because people didn't want - to be blunt about it - "the wrong colored people" in their neighborhoods. Absolute majority rule has some serious downsides.
    - wbl 9y ago
      They said that when they chased out Willie Mayes and during the Chinese Laundry cases.