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This comment thread, the thread on the article, and the article itself are so disappointing. I expected more from Hacker News and Engadget. This is fake news a

by throwaway2016a 9y ago

This comment thread, the thread on the article, and the article itself are so disappointing. I expected more from Hacker News and Engadget. This is fake news and so many people fell for it. And I NEVER use the term fake news, this is literally the first time. Like many cases of fake news it is based on something that is true but either through ignorance or intentional misdirection is drawing and leading people to draw a false conclusion. What is actually happening: - Website app can see an access log of every page you visit on it when previously they could only see successful pages that didn't error or result in a 404. Just instead of a typed URL it is a spoken sentence. - Web app STILL CANNOT access what you requested from other web apps (other Alexa skills). What everyone is ready and the Engadget article strongly implies: - amazon is now sending everything you say to all developers even if you said to to another app Edit: To the one person (so far) who down-voted me and to the others who probably will as well... I'm OK with that. I am willing to sacrifice some HN karma to spread the word that intentionally misleading articles like this are not OK. And coming on Hacker News and allowing yourself to be mislead rather than form your own opinion is also not OK. We deserve better.

AlexandrB 9y ago
> Just instead of a typed URL it is a spoken sentence. This is why I'll never use a smart speaker - the line between when I am and am not subject to Amazon's privacy policy and information sharing with their "partners" is blurry from a user POV and completely depends on Amazon's tech working as intended. With a computer it's binary, I am either typing something into the computer or I am not.
- throwaway2016a 9y ago
  It's pretty clear... - When you say the wake word it starts. - The light is on when it is recording. - Once you say a phrase to activate an app it goes to that app. That last one is a bit fuzzy. "Open APP_NAME", "tell APP_NAME" and a few other phrases will trigger it which may not be all that clear. This change only effects stuff you say after you trigger the app. And if Amazon doesn't obey it AND somehow no one can reverse engineer and detect that they aren't playing by the rules... someone at Amazon will whistle-blow and it will cost the company millions if not billions. Sound the alarms when I developer reports receiving logs of conversations that weren't with their app. There are thousands of developers. One of them has to be honest. The only concern I possibly have is if the governments orders them to activate it as a listening device, but this particular article is not about that. This article is distorting the truth to get clicks. Period.
  - CaptSpify 9y ago
    Just like nobody could create a back-door that would last for years on Yahoo's servers, or nobody could compromise customer data on Google's severs, because someone would tell. Except that those happened. I don't disagree that the article is a bit click-baity, but saying that this is impossible for Amazon to do because "they totally said they aren't" is fairly naive
  - AlexandrB 9y ago
    > and it will cost the company millions if not billions. Honest question: has any company been successfully sued for privacy violations and paid out anywhere near this much? If so how long do you think the laws that allow such a lawsuit will persist in today's political climate? Also, note that Alexa's Terms of Use include a mandatory arbitration clause[1] which may prevent any effective recourse even if Amazon's entire trove of data was shared inappropriately. [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201809740 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...
    - throwaway2016a 9y ago
      I wasn't talking about suites or fines. Amazon Prime is such a large business they can lose hundreds of millions just from cancelled subscriptions and list customers (and it would only take a 10% loss to do that).
- throwaway2016a 9y ago
  Writing a second reply because it is kind of a different point that my first. I respect your view. I wasn't talking about you view point. I was talking about the people who are outraged about this specific change. Engadget is being ignorant (willfully or not) about the impact of this specific change and left out critical details about it to make it sound like Amazon was sending everything you say to third parties. Editorializing, fine. But leaving out a critical detail like this and putting the word "may" in front of it to cover your ass is just wrong. The people dislike smart speakers in general (or "Far Field Communication" as Amazon likes to call it) have their own reasons. Many of which I can see eye to eye with.

AlexandrB 9y ago

> Just instead of a typed URL it is a spoken sentence. This is why I'll never use a smart speaker - the line between when I am and am not subject to Amazon's privacy policy and information sharing with their "partners" is blurry from a user POV and completely depends on Amazon's tech working as intended. With a computer it's binary, I am either typing something into the computer or I am not.

throwaway2016a 9y ago
It's pretty clear... - When you say the wake word it starts. - The light is on when it is recording. - Once you say a phrase to activate an app it goes to that app. That last one is a bit fuzzy. "Open APP_NAME", "tell APP_NAME" and a few other phrases will trigger it which may not be all that clear. This change only effects stuff you say after you trigger the app. And if Amazon doesn't obey it AND somehow no one can reverse engineer and detect that they aren't playing by the rules... someone at Amazon will whistle-blow and it will cost the company millions if not billions. Sound the alarms when I developer reports receiving logs of conversations that weren't with their app. There are thousands of developers. One of them has to be honest. The only concern I possibly have is if the governments orders them to activate it as a listening device, but this particular article is not about that. This article is distorting the truth to get clicks. Period.
- CaptSpify 9y ago
  Just like nobody could create a back-door that would last for years on Yahoo's servers, or nobody could compromise customer data on Google's severs, because someone would tell. Except that those happened. I don't disagree that the article is a bit click-baity, but saying that this is impossible for Amazon to do because "they totally said they aren't" is fairly naive
- AlexandrB 9y ago
  > and it will cost the company millions if not billions. Honest question: has any company been successfully sued for privacy violations and paid out anywhere near this much? If so how long do you think the laws that allow such a lawsuit will persist in today's political climate? Also, note that Alexa's Terms of Use include a mandatory arbitration clause[1] which may prevent any effective recourse even if Amazon's entire trove of data was shared inappropriately. [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201809740 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...
  - throwaway2016a 9y ago
    I wasn't talking about suites or fines. Amazon Prime is such a large business they can lose hundreds of millions just from cancelled subscriptions and list customers (and it would only take a 10% loss to do that).
throwaway2016a 9y ago
Writing a second reply because it is kind of a different point that my first. I respect your view. I wasn't talking about you view point. I was talking about the people who are outraged about this specific change. Engadget is being ignorant (willfully or not) about the impact of this specific change and left out critical details about it to make it sound like Amazon was sending everything you say to third parties. Editorializing, fine. But leaving out a critical detail like this and putting the word "may" in front of it to cover your ass is just wrong. The people dislike smart speakers in general (or "Far Field Communication" as Amazon likes to call it) have their own reasons. Many of which I can see eye to eye with.