6 ms·

I sometimes wonder if Canada's tech industry would be more ahead if there was no TN visa.

by drpgq 9y ago

stygiansonic 9y ago
Perhaps the ease of working in the US tech industry (via the TN visa) is, in some part, responsible for driving talent towards these university programs?
- randomdata 9y ago
  This seems most likely. Canada has a very strong connection with labour, which is especially visible when looking at the differing attitudes around unionization[1]. The social norms dictate that you go to school and then get a good job working for someone else. As a result, high achievers do not normally strive to be entrepreneurs. If there wasn't a bustling tech industry in the US for these people to go to, I expect they would end up aiming to work in established Canadian industries, not setting out to build a tech industry like the US has. [1] https://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_unionization_usa_canada.jpg https://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_unionization_usa_cana...
twblalock 9y ago
Workers in the industry are significantly underpaid relative to the US. With no easy way to work in the US, I suspect fewer Canadians would choose to study computer science. For example, from Google just now, the average software engineering salary in Vancouver BC is about $73k CAD (about $57k USD), and the average software engineering salary in Seattle is about $96k USD. That's about a 68% increase over the Canadian salary, and the cost of living is similar in both cities. Incidentally, my company has had a number of Waterloo interns over the years and they have all been excellent. Many of them have moved back to the US after graduating.
- xyzzy_plugh 9y ago
  Relative to other prograns, computer science graduates still probably come out near the top in terms of job opportunities and income, even if they're underpaid relative to the US.
- throw968652 9y ago
  Last year I got offers to intern at one of the big 4 companies in a US office and a Canadian office. Including relocation bonus, for 14 weeks, in the US I was offered 31K USD and in Canada 28K CAD, (around 22K USD). A 40% difference.
- nimos 9y ago
  CS still pays way better than most stuff in Canada and almost every school's CS department is struggling to meet demand. I'm sure there would be some negative effect in terms of demand but realistically the supply side is so constrained especially at good schools I doubt you'd see any real downtick in graduates.
- 52-6F-62 9y ago
  And that number in Vancouver is the average market rate. Work on a tech role at a non-tech company and the range can be up to $30k CAD lower than that at varying experience levels.
rezashirazian 9y ago
I think the TN actually helps the Canadian tech industry. It might be a bit counterintuitive but as an engineer in the Bay Area on TN, I can see myself spending a few more years down here and eventually move back to Canada to set up shop. I would take what I've learned along with the connections I've made and start a business in a country that's more immigrant friendly, has universal healthcare and is very close to the US.
- allengeorge 9y ago
  That's exactly the path I'm interested in following.
acchow 9y ago
Waterloo would not be a very good school if not for the TN visa.
- minwcnt5 9y ago
  You're just going to throw that out there with no explanation? Waterloo had a very strong reputation prior to NAFTA. In the 1990s, prior to the tech boom, it was far less common for co-op students to do work terms in the US, but the school was still just as highly regarded as it is now for CS/engineering/math grads.
  - Kephael 9y ago
    It's about as difficult to get into Waterloo for undergraduate studies as it is to get into a regional US state university. Many Waterloo students don't take AP courses and standardized tests are not required. I am rather disappointed more US universities have not adopted a similar coop system.

I sometimes wonder if Canada's tech industry would be more ahead if there was no TN visa.

by drpgq 9y ago

I sometimes wonder if Canada's tech industry would be more ahead if there was no TN visa.

Perhaps the ease of working in the US tech industry (via the TN visa) is, in some part, responsible for driving talent towards these university programs?

randomdata 9y ago
This seems most likely. Canada has a very strong connection with labour, which is especially visible when looking at the differing attitudes around unionization[1]. The social norms dictate that you go to school and then get a good job working for someone else. As a result, high achievers do not normally strive to be entrepreneurs. If there wasn't a bustling tech industry in the US for these people to go to, I expect they would end up aiming to work in established Canadian industries, not setting out to build a tech industry like the US has. [1] https://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_unionization_usa_canada.jpg https://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_unionization_usa_cana...

twblalock 9y ago

Workers in the industry are significantly underpaid relative to the US. With no easy way to work in the US, I suspect fewer Canadians would choose to study computer science. For example, from Google just now, the average software engineering salary in Vancouver BC is about $73k CAD (about $57k USD), and the average software engineering salary in Seattle is about $96k USD. That's about a 68% increase over the Canadian salary, and the cost of living is similar in both cities. Incidentally, my company has had a number of Waterloo interns over the years and they have all been excellent. Many of them have moved back to the US after graduating.

xyzzy_plugh 9y ago
Relative to other prograns, computer science graduates still probably come out near the top in terms of job opportunities and income, even if they're underpaid relative to the US.
throw968652 9y ago
Last year I got offers to intern at one of the big 4 companies in a US office and a Canadian office. Including relocation bonus, for 14 weeks, in the US I was offered 31K USD and in Canada 28K CAD, (around 22K USD). A 40% difference.
nimos 9y ago
CS still pays way better than most stuff in Canada and almost every school's CS department is struggling to meet demand. I'm sure there would be some negative effect in terms of demand but realistically the supply side is so constrained especially at good schools I doubt you'd see any real downtick in graduates.
52-6F-62 9y ago
And that number in Vancouver is the average market rate. Work on a tech role at a non-tech company and the range can be up to $30k CAD lower than that at varying experience levels.

rezashirazian 9y ago

I think the TN actually helps the Canadian tech industry. It might be a bit counterintuitive but as an engineer in the Bay Area on TN, I can see myself spending a few more years down here and eventually move back to Canada to set up shop. I would take what I've learned along with the connections I've made and start a business in a country that's more immigrant friendly, has universal healthcare and is very close to the US.

allengeorge 9y ago
That's exactly the path I'm interested in following.

acchow 9y ago

Waterloo would not be a very good school if not for the TN visa.

minwcnt5 9y ago
You're just going to throw that out there with no explanation? Waterloo had a very strong reputation prior to NAFTA. In the 1990s, prior to the tech boom, it was far less common for co-op students to do work terms in the US, but the school was still just as highly regarded as it is now for CS/engineering/math grads.
- Kephael 9y ago
  It's about as difficult to get into Waterloo for undergraduate studies as it is to get into a regional US state university. Many Waterloo students don't take AP courses and standardized tests are not required. I am rather disappointed more US universities have not adopted a similar coop system.