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American tourists have an appalling reputation in most of the world, but I wouldn't take that as a reason not to visit America. Most of the stereotypes of Chine

American tourists have an appalling reputation in most of the world, but I wouldn't take that as a reason not to visit America. Most of the stereotypes of Chinese tourists equally apply to Americans. I think that in both cases, the causes are essentially the same - inexperience. American and Chinese people have very little vacation time. They're both big countries, so there's a lot to see and do domestically. It's quite normal for a European to have travelled abroad several times a year since childhood, but a very large proportion of American and Chinese tourists have little or no experience of international travel. A lack of experience and the desire to cram a lot into a short trip encourages large group tours, which are inherently more disruptive than independent travellers. It's hard to be thoughtful and polite when you're being hustled from one Kodak moment to the next. It's hard to blend in with the locals when you're in a group of 30 foreign tourists. It's hard to pick up on the local etiquette when you've blasted through six countries in as many days; it's doubly hard when you're from an unusually extroverted culture. Savvy Americans have started to leave the tour bus behind, learn the art of travel and buck the stereotypes. I'm sure that Chinese travellers will follow the same path.

cylinder 9y ago
It has nothing to do with group trips. Even the mainland Chinese living in Sydney are like this. Their kids who study abroad can be better. If anything the tourists are a bit more chill.
- jdietrich 9y ago
  I can't speak to the Australian situation, but the vast numbers of Chinese students in the UK are predominantly polite and respectful. That's no mean feat when you consider the subtle, complex and rather passive-aggressive nature of British etiquette.
- contravert 9y ago
  I don't say this often, but this is straight up racism. You're painting an enormous group of people with a lazy and ignorant stereotype.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    It isn't racism at all, literally no one claims ethnically Chinese people from anywhere other than mainland China behave like this. Some people have to think rather than just regurgitating propaganda, this is a real problem.
  - cylinder 9y ago
    Nationality is a race now? Great, when I check the race box from now on I'll just put "United States!"
mistermann 9y ago
> Most of the stereotypes of Chinese tourists equally apply to Americans. I'm sorry this is simply not true and I'd argue this well meaning anti-racist-to-the-point-of-delusion attitude that has been drilled into the heads of Westerners is part of the problem of why China as a nation hasn't made more serious efforts to teach its citizenry the very basics of common courtesy. I've been in airport immigration queues and watched numerous different Chinese people blatantly (there isn't a strong enough word to fully describe the magnitude) cut into every single line they could....if there was the slightest of gaps, a Chinese person would be jumping into it, completely oblivious (or not, I'm suspicious) to the rude stares of others who are politely queuing. And I won't even get into volume of speaking, driving habits, adherence to laws related to fraud, etc. One would think their fellow countrymen who know better would say something (if I saw a Canadian pulling this stunt he'd get a severe public shaming from me), but once again most Westerners would probably disagree with this, as the very notion of groups having a social responsibility for "policing themselves" is also considered "racist", as is even noticing blatantly obvious patterns in objective reality. EDIT: Reminded me of this video: Why BUY books in CHINA when you can read them for FREE! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=950PYt9d1Po https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=950PYt9d1Po I think this goes a long ways to explaining why they are the way they are, types of behavior that would be unthinkable anywhere else is absolutely normal in China.
- comstock 9y ago
  I watched that video, the following comment was the most interesting observation for me (I'd want to research this more, but it's an interesting starting point): Historically, because the oldest bookstore which called "新华书店“ in China is state-owned, they do not have the right to drive the customers away just because they can not buy the books. On the other hand, during that time(1940s), more than 85% of the population are illiterate, so the goverment encouraged people to read in the bookstore and deliberately pulled the price of books. Economically, because the bookstore in China is a collection of various other business projects, such as Tea bars, coffee shops, Stationery shops and so on(you can find these in the veido), so a large number of customer flows will generate huge business benefits. In fact, many bookstores in the UK also allow customers to do so. These are the reasons why this 'porblem' happend in China. I suggest you, please do a little investigation before making a rash judgment
mikeash 9y ago
At least the queueing thing totally applies to people in China too. There's little queueing culture in many circumstances, so you either learn to shove ahead or you get left behind.
- jdietrich 9y ago
  Queuing isn't the objectively correct way to wait for something, it's a specific cultural norm. Many cultures don't queue at all. Attitudes to queue-jumping vary widely, from being an immense faux pas to practically a sport. The British and Russians have a penchant for queuing-without-queuing, with each person keeping a mental note of the order in which everyone is waiting to be served. http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/everyone-line-up-canadas-tradition-of-orderly-queuing-foreign-and-strange-to-many-newcomers/ http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/everyone-line-up-canadas...
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Indeed, I wouldn't say it's objectively wrong, but it's a big culture shock and can leave you feeling pretty upset if you come from a place where queuing behavior is more regular. Especially since so much of China is so crowded, so having people go in front of you "unfairly" can really screw you over, not just set you back a couple of minutes.
  - graedus 9y ago
    IMO it's objectively superior! I'm fine with queuing-without-queuing as long as it's not abused. Queuing at least makes the order absolutely clear so that people can't as easily change the order, intentionally or accidentally. I assume you're only pointing out that queuing-without-queuing is a thing, not defending queue-jumping or places where the lack of any ordered system means whoever is strongest pushes to the front.
jotjotzzz 9y ago
Basic human ettiequte and decency is taught at home, at schools, and within the culture of society (e.g., Mr. Rogers neighborhood or Sesame Street on TV). I do notice that countries that have serious overcrowding, like mainland China, India, and probably other third-world countries, just do not bother or have no access to, or maybe just plain don't know any better. I don't think this has anything to do with the lack of travel experience. It's just the way that they were brought up and perhaps in their village or town it's just like that.
- jdietrich 9y ago
  There's no such thing as human etiquette, only a specific culture's etiquette. Many behaviours that are perfectly normal in your culture would be unspeakably rude in mine and vice-versa. From the perspective of my overcrowded island in the north Atlantic, Americans are often unbearably loud and brash; to Americans, we often come across as cold, distant and unfriendly. Travel is a skill that has to be learned - we aren't born with the ability to quickly acclimatise to different cultures.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    > There's no such thing as human etiquette, only a specific culture's etiquette. Please, name the cultures that consider defecating in public (sidewalks, shopping malls, airplane aisles) to be normal behavior when there is a washroom less than 1 minute walk away.
    - soundwave106 9y ago
      For this specific issue, open defecation is actually considered "normal" behavior in many less developed countries (particularly in impoverished areas). This is indeed a health concern; from what I understand, reducing open defecation is a big goal for global health organizations, and countries such as India (where open defecation is unfortunately common, and I definitely witnessed plenty of when I went many years ago) have made large information campaigns to try and discourage the practice. From the little I can Google (http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/china/people-practicing-open-defecation http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/china/people-practicing-open...), it appears that open defecation was possibly more accepted in China, particularly in rural areas, 30 years ago. It looks like China has made a lot of progress regarding sanitation and reducing this practice, which is good. Still, I bet there's still some leftover bad habits, which may carry over to some of the tourist mishaps.

cylinder 9y ago

It has nothing to do with group trips. Even the mainland Chinese living in Sydney are like this. Their kids who study abroad can be better. If anything the tourists are a bit more chill.

jdietrich 9y ago
I can't speak to the Australian situation, but the vast numbers of Chinese students in the UK are predominantly polite and respectful. That's no mean feat when you consider the subtle, complex and rather passive-aggressive nature of British etiquette.
contravert 9y ago
I don't say this often, but this is straight up racism. You're painting an enormous group of people with a lazy and ignorant stereotype.
- mistermann 9y ago
  It isn't racism at all, literally no one claims ethnically Chinese people from anywhere other than mainland China behave like this. Some people have to think rather than just regurgitating propaganda, this is a real problem.
- cylinder 9y ago
  Nationality is a race now? Great, when I check the race box from now on I'll just put "United States!"

mistermann 9y ago

> Most of the stereotypes of Chinese tourists equally apply to Americans. I'm sorry this is simply not true and I'd argue this well meaning anti-racist-to-the-point-of-delusion attitude that has been drilled into the heads of Westerners is part of the problem of why China as a nation hasn't made more serious efforts to teach its citizenry the very basics of common courtesy. I've been in airport immigration queues and watched numerous different Chinese people blatantly (there isn't a strong enough word to fully describe the magnitude) cut into every single line they could....if there was the slightest of gaps, a Chinese person would be jumping into it, completely oblivious (or not, I'm suspicious) to the rude stares of others who are politely queuing. And I won't even get into volume of speaking, driving habits, adherence to laws related to fraud, etc. One would think their fellow countrymen who know better would say something (if I saw a Canadian pulling this stunt he'd get a severe public shaming from me), but once again most Westerners would probably disagree with this, as the very notion of groups having a social responsibility for "policing themselves" is also considered "racist", as is even noticing blatantly obvious patterns in objective reality. EDIT: Reminded me of this video: Why BUY books in CHINA when you can read them for FREE! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=950PYt9d1Po https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=950PYt9d1Po I think this goes a long ways to explaining why they are the way they are, types of behavior that would be unthinkable anywhere else is absolutely normal in China.

comstock 9y ago
I watched that video, the following comment was the most interesting observation for me (I'd want to research this more, but it's an interesting starting point): Historically, because the oldest bookstore which called "新华书店“ in China is state-owned, they do not have the right to drive the customers away just because they can not buy the books. On the other hand, during that time(1940s), more than 85% of the population are illiterate, so the goverment encouraged people to read in the bookstore and deliberately pulled the price of books. Economically, because the bookstore in China is a collection of various other business projects, such as Tea bars, coffee shops, Stationery shops and so on(you can find these in the veido), so a large number of customer flows will generate huge business benefits. In fact, many bookstores in the UK also allow customers to do so. These are the reasons why this 'porblem' happend in China. I suggest you, please do a little investigation before making a rash judgment

mikeash 9y ago

At least the queueing thing totally applies to people in China too. There's little queueing culture in many circumstances, so you either learn to shove ahead or you get left behind.

jdietrich 9y ago
Queuing isn't the objectively correct way to wait for something, it's a specific cultural norm. Many cultures don't queue at all. Attitudes to queue-jumping vary widely, from being an immense faux pas to practically a sport. The British and Russians have a penchant for queuing-without-queuing, with each person keeping a mental note of the order in which everyone is waiting to be served. http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/everyone-line-up-canadas-tradition-of-orderly-queuing-foreign-and-strange-to-many-newcomers/ http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/everyone-line-up-canadas...
- mikeash 9y ago
  Indeed, I wouldn't say it's objectively wrong, but it's a big culture shock and can leave you feeling pretty upset if you come from a place where queuing behavior is more regular. Especially since so much of China is so crowded, so having people go in front of you "unfairly" can really screw you over, not just set you back a couple of minutes.
- graedus 9y ago
  IMO it's objectively superior! I'm fine with queuing-without-queuing as long as it's not abused. Queuing at least makes the order absolutely clear so that people can't as easily change the order, intentionally or accidentally. I assume you're only pointing out that queuing-without-queuing is a thing, not defending queue-jumping or places where the lack of any ordered system means whoever is strongest pushes to the front.

jotjotzzz 9y ago

Basic human ettiequte and decency is taught at home, at schools, and within the culture of society (e.g., Mr. Rogers neighborhood or Sesame Street on TV). I do notice that countries that have serious overcrowding, like mainland China, India, and probably other third-world countries, just do not bother or have no access to, or maybe just plain don't know any better. I don't think this has anything to do with the lack of travel experience. It's just the way that they were brought up and perhaps in their village or town it's just like that.

jdietrich 9y ago
There's no such thing as human etiquette, only a specific culture's etiquette. Many behaviours that are perfectly normal in your culture would be unspeakably rude in mine and vice-versa. From the perspective of my overcrowded island in the north Atlantic, Americans are often unbearably loud and brash; to Americans, we often come across as cold, distant and unfriendly. Travel is a skill that has to be learned - we aren't born with the ability to quickly acclimatise to different cultures.
- mistermann 9y ago
  > There's no such thing as human etiquette, only a specific culture's etiquette. Please, name the cultures that consider defecating in public (sidewalks, shopping malls, airplane aisles) to be normal behavior when there is a washroom less than 1 minute walk away.
  - soundwave106 9y ago
    For this specific issue, open defecation is actually considered "normal" behavior in many less developed countries (particularly in impoverished areas). This is indeed a health concern; from what I understand, reducing open defecation is a big goal for global health organizations, and countries such as India (where open defecation is unfortunately common, and I definitely witnessed plenty of when I went many years ago) have made large information campaigns to try and discourage the practice. From the little I can Google (http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/china/people-practicing-open-defecation http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/china/people-practicing-open...), it appears that open defecation was possibly more accepted in China, particularly in rural areas, 30 years ago. It looks like China has made a lot of progress regarding sanitation and reducing this practice, which is good. Still, I bet there's still some leftover bad habits, which may carry over to some of the tourist mishaps.