5 ms·

> Can anyone explain to me why anyone would invest in an organization like this? In my case, because the "investment" is free and thus completely devoid of ris

> Can anyone explain to me why anyone would invest in an organization like this? In my case, because the "investment" is free and thus completely devoid of risk. I bought Tezos using unused Bitcoin I had laying around. Even if it turns out to be a total loss, all I lost was Bitcoin. I cannot lose "real" money because I have bought Bitcoin cheap enough and sold enough to get my Euro investment back. The worst case that could happen would be Tezos completely tanking and Bitcoin skyrocketing, which would make me a multi-millionaire with one million Euros less than I could have had if I had not bought Tezos. I'm prepared to take that risk.

lz400 9y ago
That's a loss of opportunity cost. It's not devoid of risk. Sell your btc now, that's the money you can lose.
- tom_mellior 9y ago
  > That's a loss of opportunity cost. It's trading something I have for the possibility of gaining something back in the future, maybe less, maybe more, maybe nothing at all. Yes, it's a loss of opportunity cost, as is any other investment. > It's not devoid of risk. I know you won't find this in your economics textbook, but: The risk of losing something I don't need is not a risk.
  - lz400 9y ago
    if you don't need that money why are you betting it to get even more money you don't need? :) It is risk, maybe not existential risk for you but risk. If you have a savings account, you don't need that money right now probably, still betting 30% of it in random horse in the races is risk, otherwise you are just working with a odd definition of risk.
    - tom_mellior 9y ago
      > if you don't need that money why are you betting it to get even more money you don't need? :) Why do rich people go to the casino? Why do rich people invest in risky projects? There is a thrill to gambling itself. There is a thrill to winning as well. Yes, even winning things you don't need. I think this is asymmetrical: When gambling with money you don't need otherwise, the joy derived from winning is greater than the loss of joy derived from losing. Especially if you win really really big :-) There's another point, though. If Tezos really takes off, that could allow me to do things I can't currently do. The more it takes off, the more interesting projects would open up. So you could say that, in a sense, and until some point of saturation, I would start "needing" the money more and more as more and more of it accumulates. If that seems like a paradox to you, that's fine with me.
      - lz400 9y ago
        I understand. You are saying an extra 30K won't make your life very different but an extra $3m would. And you have 30K lying around you can gamble for that chance. I get it. There's still opportunity cost lying around all over the place. You could invest in any number of highly leveraged assets or hedge funds or stocks (or go to the casino :). The fact that you have that money lying around doesn't automatically make anything you do with it devoid of risk. Arguably you could send it to some Nigerian prince and wait for payback, that sounds like a bad idea. There's a whole spectrum of risk even in your case. I'm not saying you are not doing the right thing, just that you are taking a decision that comes with a risk.
mcbruiser3 9y ago
> with one million Euros less wow, you invested $1MM Euros worth of BTC into Tezos? is that right? did you make all your money via investing in BTC?
- tom_mellior 9y ago
  No, that part was prefixed with "if Bitcoin were to skyrocket". A million is an illustrative number I pulled out of my nose. I think the minimal investment in Tezos was 1 Bitcoin, which is what I put in. That's on the order of 2000 EUR now, so it would have to skyrocket quite a bit more to get to a literal million.
- tom_mellior 9y ago
  Also, I "made" my money the way most well-off people do: I inherited it.
  - mcbruiser3 9y ago
    OK, good for you. I hope my kids can say that someday.

lz400 9y ago

That's a loss of opportunity cost. It's not devoid of risk. Sell your btc now, that's the money you can lose.

tom_mellior 9y ago
> That's a loss of opportunity cost. It's trading something I have for the possibility of gaining something back in the future, maybe less, maybe more, maybe nothing at all. Yes, it's a loss of opportunity cost, as is any other investment. > It's not devoid of risk. I know you won't find this in your economics textbook, but: The risk of losing something I don't need is not a risk.
- lz400 9y ago
  if you don't need that money why are you betting it to get even more money you don't need? :) It is risk, maybe not existential risk for you but risk. If you have a savings account, you don't need that money right now probably, still betting 30% of it in random horse in the races is risk, otherwise you are just working with a odd definition of risk.
  - tom_mellior 9y ago
    > if you don't need that money why are you betting it to get even more money you don't need? :) Why do rich people go to the casino? Why do rich people invest in risky projects? There is a thrill to gambling itself. There is a thrill to winning as well. Yes, even winning things you don't need. I think this is asymmetrical: When gambling with money you don't need otherwise, the joy derived from winning is greater than the loss of joy derived from losing. Especially if you win really really big :-) There's another point, though. If Tezos really takes off, that could allow me to do things I can't currently do. The more it takes off, the more interesting projects would open up. So you could say that, in a sense, and until some point of saturation, I would start "needing" the money more and more as more and more of it accumulates. If that seems like a paradox to you, that's fine with me.
    - lz400 9y ago
      I understand. You are saying an extra 30K won't make your life very different but an extra $3m would. And you have 30K lying around you can gamble for that chance. I get it. There's still opportunity cost lying around all over the place. You could invest in any number of highly leveraged assets or hedge funds or stocks (or go to the casino :). The fact that you have that money lying around doesn't automatically make anything you do with it devoid of risk. Arguably you could send it to some Nigerian prince and wait for payback, that sounds like a bad idea. There's a whole spectrum of risk even in your case. I'm not saying you are not doing the right thing, just that you are taking a decision that comes with a risk.

mcbruiser3 9y ago

> with one million Euros less wow, you invested $1MM Euros worth of BTC into Tezos? is that right? did you make all your money via investing in BTC?

tom_mellior 9y ago
No, that part was prefixed with "if Bitcoin were to skyrocket". A million is an illustrative number I pulled out of my nose. I think the minimal investment in Tezos was 1 Bitcoin, which is what I put in. That's on the order of 2000 EUR now, so it would have to skyrocket quite a bit more to get to a literal million.
tom_mellior 9y ago
Also, I "made" my money the way most well-off people do: I inherited it.
- mcbruiser3 9y ago
  OK, good for you. I hope my kids can say that someday.