3 ms·

I don't know what you're thinking of but no, you can't have that because if you had this magical hotspot your network card in your iThing would not know what to

by Paul_S 9y ago

I don't know what you're thinking of but no, you can't have that because if you had this magical hotspot your network card in your iThing would not know what to do because wifi does not do frequency hopping. Every time your hotspot changes channels it disconnects all your devices.

jsmthrowaway 9y ago
You're forgetting devices with two bands, and assuming a lot about my devices (and competence). I know my network and its behavior, and I'm not just spewing hot air here.
- Paul_S 9y ago
  You are arguing with me about something that is easy to verify in 10 seconds by looking at the wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11 (it does mention a frequency hopping physical layer but that was part of the obsolete predecessor from 1997, the modern spec uses OFDM so unless all your equipment is from the last century you're not using frequency hopping)
  - logicallee 9y ago
    Paul_S, could you be a bit more civil to jsmthrowaway so as to elicit what he does know and how he knows it? jsmthrowaway can you give more information about your setup and what the devices do? No need for a heated argument. This whole thread is quite instructive!
    - reitanqild 9y ago
      Why was this downvoted? (No I'm not complaining about being downvoted - this isn't even my comment - just trying to learn.
      - drkstr 9y ago
        Based on my frequent lurking, I would guess it was due to the personal (and off topic) nature of the comment. Addressing users specifically in this way seems to be looked down upon here.
        logicallee 9y ago
        not really. people aren't allowed to be rude and uncivil with each other here, as it shuts down constructive discussion. this is in the guidelines.
  - reitanqild 9y ago
    I think there is a misunderstanding related to the terms here: 1. IIRC my router is supposed to switch channel (i.e. frequency) automatically unless I explicitly set it to a fixed channel. I don't know how but my devices figures out and continues working. 2. I think the misunderstanding is related to the word frequency hopping or whatever was used further up in the discussion. I normally take "frequency hopping" to mean changing frequncy multiple times a minute or even faster while I doubt my wireless access point will switch channels more than a few times in 24 hours. Disclaimer: I never really sat down and verified if it ever changed. Also agree with logicalle that I wish for a bit more civility.
lvillani 9y ago
I can't speak for jsmthrowaway but I think that he's referring to Band Steering (please correct me if I'm wrong). It's not in the spec but my Unifi gear definitely has a checkbox to enable it if I opt-in to see "advanced settings". As far as I know it's not dynamic, though. It just happens when a device connects to a base station and only "steers" the client to connect using one of the 2.4 or 5 GHz bands, and that doesn't interfere with channel selection. The AP also has a function to scan bands to find the "best" channel to use but that disconnects all devices while the scan is in progress. I think some APs might be doing this automatically (?). My other AP (a Mikrotik) has an "auto" channel selector but I don't know what it does or when.
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  Correct. I’m on Unifi gear with two bands. When it has opportunities to do so, it moves around the SSIDs themselves, too, which seems to happen after every client gets steered to one of them (it’ll reconfigure the other). I might have enabled this feature at some point without realizing it. My neighbor moves around his channels, too. That’s what’s making me comment that it’s likely more common than we think. I’m not at home to prove this and I’m getting downvoted for sharing, but I’ve watched him move between 36, 40, and 44 at a frequency that suggests it is happening automatically, probably when all of his sessions go idle or something. I have observed this with multiple tools. My 5 GHz was on 44 this morning, because I happened to look for unrelated reasons. I just SSH’d home and it’s now on 36 without interaction from me. Specifications are not implementations. I’m almost positive this is a common feature which I’ve seen in many APs over the years, even though it’s not per-packet like Bluetooth (which I was also aware of, given that I'm experimenting with a Bluetooth 5 mesh system for IIoT).
- rconti 9y ago
  Right, and that's band steering, not frequency hopping.

by Paul_S 9y ago

jsmthrowaway 9y ago

You're forgetting devices with two bands, and assuming a lot about my devices (and competence). I know my network and its behavior, and I'm not just spewing hot air here.

Paul_S 9y ago
You are arguing with me about something that is easy to verify in 10 seconds by looking at the wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11 (it does mention a frequency hopping physical layer but that was part of the obsolete predecessor from 1997, the modern spec uses OFDM so unless all your equipment is from the last century you're not using frequency hopping)
- logicallee 9y ago
  Paul_S, could you be a bit more civil to jsmthrowaway so as to elicit what he does know and how he knows it? jsmthrowaway can you give more information about your setup and what the devices do? No need for a heated argument. This whole thread is quite instructive!
  - reitanqild 9y ago
    Why was this downvoted? (No I'm not complaining about being downvoted - this isn't even my comment - just trying to learn.
    - drkstr 9y ago
      Based on my frequent lurking, I would guess it was due to the personal (and off topic) nature of the comment. Addressing users specifically in this way seems to be looked down upon here.
      - logicallee 9y ago
        not really. people aren't allowed to be rude and uncivil with each other here, as it shuts down constructive discussion. this is in the guidelines.
- reitanqild 9y ago
  I think there is a misunderstanding related to the terms here: 1. IIRC my router is supposed to switch channel (i.e. frequency) automatically unless I explicitly set it to a fixed channel. I don't know how but my devices figures out and continues working. 2. I think the misunderstanding is related to the word frequency hopping or whatever was used further up in the discussion. I normally take "frequency hopping" to mean changing frequncy multiple times a minute or even faster while I doubt my wireless access point will switch channels more than a few times in 24 hours. Disclaimer: I never really sat down and verified if it ever changed. Also agree with logicalle that I wish for a bit more civility.

lvillani 9y ago

I can't speak for jsmthrowaway but I think that he's referring to Band Steering (please correct me if I'm wrong). It's not in the spec but my Unifi gear definitely has a checkbox to enable it if I opt-in to see "advanced settings". As far as I know it's not dynamic, though. It just happens when a device connects to a base station and only "steers" the client to connect using one of the 2.4 or 5 GHz bands, and that doesn't interfere with channel selection. The AP also has a function to scan bands to find the "best" channel to use but that disconnects all devices while the scan is in progress. I think some APs might be doing this automatically (?). My other AP (a Mikrotik) has an "auto" channel selector but I don't know what it does or when.

jsmthrowaway 9y ago
Correct. I’m on Unifi gear with two bands. When it has opportunities to do so, it moves around the SSIDs themselves, too, which seems to happen after every client gets steered to one of them (it’ll reconfigure the other). I might have enabled this feature at some point without realizing it. My neighbor moves around his channels, too. That’s what’s making me comment that it’s likely more common than we think. I’m not at home to prove this and I’m getting downvoted for sharing, but I’ve watched him move between 36, 40, and 44 at a frequency that suggests it is happening automatically, probably when all of his sessions go idle or something. I have observed this with multiple tools. My 5 GHz was on 44 this morning, because I happened to look for unrelated reasons. I just SSH’d home and it’s now on 36 without interaction from me. Specifications are not implementations. I’m almost positive this is a common feature which I’ve seen in many APs over the years, even though it’s not per-packet like Bluetooth (which I was also aware of, given that I'm experimenting with a Bluetooth 5 mesh system for IIoT).
rconti 9y ago
Right, and that's band steering, not frequency hopping.