5 ms·

So a group with Innovation in its name says that decreasing innovation is the "core economic problem America faces today." Hmmm. Color me skeptical.

randomf1fan 9y ago
That's not really fair. The data should speak for itself, and I for one found the argument cogent. Did you find any errors or bias? Otherwise you might as well say the CDC saying something about Disease is invalid.
- bdcravens 9y ago
  The CDC is a government entity, and "disease" is well-defined. "Innovation" is a bit more nebulous, and the EIG appears to be quasi-non-profit, but is a private company. Also, parent comment said "skeptical", not "invalid".
- redy 9y ago
  The article is interesting because it gets a lot right but then it fails to clearly state the problem. It's not clear that this group groks it. It's funny because I just wrote this comment[0] this morning. To sort of repeat myself: - An extremely slack labor market which is causing a thousands of young men to drop out of the labor market and play video games. [2] - An extremely slack labor market which is causing unprecedented decreases in labor mobility and entrepreneurship. [3] - An extremely slack labor market which is causing enormous increases in household debt. (What the Great Financial Crisis was really about.) [4] - An extremely slack labor market which leads to corporate profits and inequality not seen since the Gilded Age.[5] - An extremely slack labor market which has led to what is probably negative wage growth as prices rise. [6] (That's just the UK but I'd say the US is probably 2-3 years behind the curve.) Add in the rise of China and you've got a perfect storm for a severe economic dislocation in the West as most of the population is tossed to the wolves of unemployment. The problem is that in America you can't simply say the labor market is the problem. People will call you communist or a socialist. So I guess you have to dress it up with terms like "innovation" and "dynamism." This confuses other people and instead of fixing the actual problem -- the labor market -- you get people arguing about cutting back environmental regulations. (Seriously, see elsewhere in the thread.) So, probably, words do matter. If this group called themselves the "Labor Innovation Group" it would be a sign they understand the issues. But as it is now it's probably a good idea to be a bit wary. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14751019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14751019 [1] https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21695385-profits-are-too-high-america-needs-giant-dose-competition-too-much-good-thing https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21695385-profits-are... [2] http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~nwilliam/Econ702_files/abch.pdf http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~nwilliam/Econ702_files/abch.pdf [3] http://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Declining-Entrepreneurship-Labor-Mobility-and-Business-Dynamism-A-Demand-Side-Approach.pdf http://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Dec... [4] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/business/dealbook/household-debt-united-states.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/business/dealbook/househo... [5] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/opinion/wage-inequality-income-growth.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/opinion/wage-inequality-i... [6] https://www.ft.com/content/6d248d02-4885-37d6-b00d-c6117c0dcd73?mhq5j=e1 https://www.ft.com/content/6d248d02-4885-37d6-b00d-c6117c0dc...
deleted 9y ago
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komali2 9y ago
So the organization with the word "Environment" in its name (used to) claims that climate change is the planet's biggest problem (EPA). I mean, really, having a certain word in your name precludes you from having an unbiased position on it?
- bdcravens 9y ago
  See my comment about sibling. Similarly, EPA is a government org, tasked with specific roles. Kinda like how DOJ has specific opinions about whether criminals should be incarcerated. > having a certain word in your name precludes you from having an unbiased position on it? Of course not. But I'll bet EIG doesn't have an unbiased opinion on innovation :-) In the same sense that NRA can publish a study about crime in states with open carry.

randomf1fan 9y ago

That's not really fair. The data should speak for itself, and I for one found the argument cogent. Did you find any errors or bias? Otherwise you might as well say the CDC saying something about Disease is invalid.

bdcravens 9y ago
The CDC is a government entity, and "disease" is well-defined. "Innovation" is a bit more nebulous, and the EIG appears to be quasi-non-profit, but is a private company. Also, parent comment said "skeptical", not "invalid".
redy 9y ago
The article is interesting because it gets a lot right but then it fails to clearly state the problem. It's not clear that this group groks it. It's funny because I just wrote this comment[0] this morning. To sort of repeat myself: - An extremely slack labor market which is causing a thousands of young men to drop out of the labor market and play video games. [2] - An extremely slack labor market which is causing unprecedented decreases in labor mobility and entrepreneurship. [3] - An extremely slack labor market which is causing enormous increases in household debt. (What the Great Financial Crisis was really about.) [4] - An extremely slack labor market which leads to corporate profits and inequality not seen since the Gilded Age.[5] - An extremely slack labor market which has led to what is probably negative wage growth as prices rise. [6] (That's just the UK but I'd say the US is probably 2-3 years behind the curve.) Add in the rise of China and you've got a perfect storm for a severe economic dislocation in the West as most of the population is tossed to the wolves of unemployment. The problem is that in America you can't simply say the labor market is the problem. People will call you communist or a socialist. So I guess you have to dress it up with terms like "innovation" and "dynamism." This confuses other people and instead of fixing the actual problem -- the labor market -- you get people arguing about cutting back environmental regulations. (Seriously, see elsewhere in the thread.) So, probably, words do matter. If this group called themselves the "Labor Innovation Group" it would be a sign they understand the issues. But as it is now it's probably a good idea to be a bit wary. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14751019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14751019 [1] https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21695385-profits-are-too-high-america-needs-giant-dose-competition-too-much-good-thing https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21695385-profits-are... [2] http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~nwilliam/Econ702_files/abch.pdf http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~nwilliam/Econ702_files/abch.pdf [3] http://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Declining-Entrepreneurship-Labor-Mobility-and-Business-Dynamism-A-Demand-Side-Approach.pdf http://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Dec... [4] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/business/dealbook/household-debt-united-states.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/business/dealbook/househo... [5] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/opinion/wage-inequality-income-growth.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/opinion/wage-inequality-i... [6] https://www.ft.com/content/6d248d02-4885-37d6-b00d-c6117c0dcd73?mhq5j=e1 https://www.ft.com/content/6d248d02-4885-37d6-b00d-c6117c0dc...

deleted 9y ago

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komali2 9y ago

So the organization with the word "Environment" in its name (used to) claims that climate change is the planet's biggest problem (EPA). I mean, really, having a certain word in your name precludes you from having an unbiased position on it?

bdcravens 9y ago
See my comment about sibling. Similarly, EPA is a government org, tasked with specific roles. Kinda like how DOJ has specific opinions about whether criminals should be incarcerated. > having a certain word in your name precludes you from having an unbiased position on it? Of course not. But I'll bet EIG doesn't have an unbiased opinion on innovation :-) In the same sense that NRA can publish a study about crime in states with open carry.