4 ms·

About three weeks ago, I went to my employer to negotiate part-time employment. I am now working 3 days a week at 2/3 pay, full benefits, and prorated vacation.

About three weeks ago, I went to my employer to negotiate part-time employment. I am now working 3 days a week at 2/3 pay, full benefits, and prorated vacation. The caveats are that I was prepared to resign, the agreement includes a stipulation that either side can rescind the arrangement with 30 days notice, and our HR department was already set up to handle such arrangements. I wanted to do something like this for a long time, but I was too afraid to ask.

ahoyhere 16y ago
Several years ago, at my second "real job", I walked in with a job offer for 20% more and got to keep my salary and work 20% less (4 days a week) instead. I was literally shaking, but it worked!
- mahmud 16y ago
  At a previous job, after an arduous interviewing process including programming tests, several interviews, background and credit checks, and finally my references being grilled over the phone, I made it to salary negotiation and I was too tired by then and didn't care if I got the job or not. So I asked for $X (in annual salary) the CEO misunderstood me and thought I wanted $X/hour. I signed the papers and was pulled into the balcony where hands were shaken and well deserved cigarettes were lit by all involved. I didn't realize what happened until my girlfriend went over the papers (she was worried about the IP papers I might have signed, given my startup ambitions) but when we saw the figures .. It was $55k in excess of what I thought I was worth. Pants. Shat. That gave me some serious professional backbone; once you start to make serious money, you tend to respect your career a whole lot more. I was so proud of myself I took up management responsibilities, studied software engineering really well, took on more tasks. Sure, it made me a workaholic, but it drove the point home that what I do is serious business.
  - mmelin 16y ago
    Great story, but do you really mean you got your annual salary per HOUR? Perhaps you meant per month? Still awesome, of course, but within the realm of reason :-)
    - MrFoof 16y ago
      My interpretation is, for example, he asked for "fifty-five" meaning "$55,000/year". They instead interpreted it as "$55/hour" which would work out to around $110,000/year assuming a standard 2,000 hours worked a year.
    - erlanger 16y ago
      A: What compensation...blah blah blah? B: 80 would be great. $80k/yr -> $80/hr.
      - moolave 16y ago
        A serendipitous negotiation technique that not all witty and lucky interviewees would like to share. Great input, nonetheless. =)
        wildwood 16y ago
        Most negotiating techniques will work better when you're negotiating directly with the CEO, instead of HR or the hiring manager... :)
      - mkramlich 16y ago
        working only half-time (1000 hrs/year) at $80/hour would yield $80k/year. that would be a very decent lifestyle in the US.
    - blahedo 16y ago
      There are about 2000 work hours in a year, give or take, so I'm assuming he said something like "55" meaning $55,000/yr but the CEO heard $55/hr which would be more like $110,000/yr.
    - mmelin 16y ago
      Looks like MrFoof and erlanger posted at the same moment so I'll reply to myself. Your explanation makes complete sense. Thanks! It would be interesting to use this in reverse: claim that you meant hourly rate when discussing salary. "Oh, you thought I meant $100k? No, no, I make $100 per hour now so double that for the salary level I'm at."
mortenjorck 16y ago
I've been considering negotiating part-time with my employer for awhile as a prudent middle ground between recklessly jumping ship (a la http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1451175 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1451175) and continuing to let my UI project crawl along at a near-standstill. Your listed caveats help me form a good picture of what I should be ready to concede. Any more tips on negotiating? I know there are always a lot of variables from company to company, but was it hard to keep full benefits?
- briancooley 16y ago
  I wish I could say that I drove a hard bargain to get full benefits, but it happens to be company policy. I went in to the meeting prepared to increase my portion of the cost of my healthcare if necessary. My biggest concerns prior to initiating the negotiations were 1) affecting morale if someone else is forced to compensate for my reduced hours, 2) the fact that I occasionally do freelance mobile development on the side, and 3) possibly being let go as my company is going through a downsizing. So far, it hasn't been an issue, but it's early. It turns out that my freelance work is a non-issue according to my employment contract and IP agreement. I didn't really reduce my hours to do freelance work. Instead, I was doing freelance work to insure some modest income should I be forced to resign, and I may reduce my efforts there since I can easily live just on the income from my part-time work. My boss and his boss were cool about the freelancing, but they told me to keep it to myself, and I wish that I had been more private about my side interests prior to asking to go part time. In your case, I would check up on the IP situation. You don't really want to be in a position where there are questions about who owns your side project. As far as negotiating tips, what worked for me - I don't know that this is great advice necessarily but I had to do it this way because it addressed the worst case scenario in terms of short-term income - was that I was resolved to resign, even though it wasn't really my first choice in improving my situation. However, I have about 1 year's living expenses saved up and I'm making close to $1K a week doing 20 hours of freelance mobile development and turning down projects just about every day. That gave me the confidence to start the conversation by saying, "I am considering resigning." Eventually, I suggested the work schedule that I was willing to consider. I had researched the company HR site to know what options were available to me. I also felt reasonably confident that they want me to stay and that it would be hard to replace me, at least in the short term. One thing that is bad about bringing up resignation is that it will likely keep you from collecting unemployment if your employer plays hard ball. I never said "I resign," just that I was considering it, but I have been advised since then that it was probably a bad idea from that standpoint. It probably didn't matter in my case because I wouldn't be eligible anyway due to my freelance income. Also, I have a very friendly relationship with my boss, so that helps a lot. It seemed that he really wanted to help me, and he played up the cost savings angle up the management ladder to help me get what I wanted.
leftnode 16y ago
I did literally the same exact thing and started a business in my free time.
peripitea 16y ago
May I ask what company you work for? I've never heard of HR supporting something like this at any of the companies I or my friends have worked for. Is it something they support but don't advertise? I'd love to have a setup like this in a few years.

ahoyhere 16y ago

Several years ago, at my second "real job", I walked in with a job offer for 20% more and got to keep my salary and work 20% less (4 days a week) instead. I was literally shaking, but it worked!

mahmud 16y ago
At a previous job, after an arduous interviewing process including programming tests, several interviews, background and credit checks, and finally my references being grilled over the phone, I made it to salary negotiation and I was too tired by then and didn't care if I got the job or not. So I asked for $X (in annual salary) the CEO misunderstood me and thought I wanted $X/hour. I signed the papers and was pulled into the balcony where hands were shaken and well deserved cigarettes were lit by all involved. I didn't realize what happened until my girlfriend went over the papers (she was worried about the IP papers I might have signed, given my startup ambitions) but when we saw the figures .. It was $55k in excess of what I thought I was worth. Pants. Shat. That gave me some serious professional backbone; once you start to make serious money, you tend to respect your career a whole lot more. I was so proud of myself I took up management responsibilities, studied software engineering really well, took on more tasks. Sure, it made me a workaholic, but it drove the point home that what I do is serious business.
- mmelin 16y ago
  Great story, but do you really mean you got your annual salary per HOUR? Perhaps you meant per month? Still awesome, of course, but within the realm of reason :-)
  - MrFoof 16y ago
    My interpretation is, for example, he asked for "fifty-five" meaning "$55,000/year". They instead interpreted it as "$55/hour" which would work out to around $110,000/year assuming a standard 2,000 hours worked a year.
  - erlanger 16y ago
    A: What compensation...blah blah blah? B: 80 would be great. $80k/yr -> $80/hr.
    - moolave 16y ago
      A serendipitous negotiation technique that not all witty and lucky interviewees would like to share. Great input, nonetheless. =)
      - wildwood 16y ago
        Most negotiating techniques will work better when you're negotiating directly with the CEO, instead of HR or the hiring manager... :)
    - mkramlich 16y ago
      working only half-time (1000 hrs/year) at $80/hour would yield $80k/year. that would be a very decent lifestyle in the US.
  - blahedo 16y ago
    There are about 2000 work hours in a year, give or take, so I'm assuming he said something like "55" meaning $55,000/yr but the CEO heard $55/hr which would be more like $110,000/yr.
  - mmelin 16y ago
    Looks like MrFoof and erlanger posted at the same moment so I'll reply to myself. Your explanation makes complete sense. Thanks! It would be interesting to use this in reverse: claim that you meant hourly rate when discussing salary. "Oh, you thought I meant $100k? No, no, I make $100 per hour now so double that for the salary level I'm at."

mortenjorck 16y ago

I've been considering negotiating part-time with my employer for awhile as a prudent middle ground between recklessly jumping ship (a la http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1451175 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1451175) and continuing to let my UI project crawl along at a near-standstill. Your listed caveats help me form a good picture of what I should be ready to concede. Any more tips on negotiating? I know there are always a lot of variables from company to company, but was it hard to keep full benefits?

briancooley 16y ago
I wish I could say that I drove a hard bargain to get full benefits, but it happens to be company policy. I went in to the meeting prepared to increase my portion of the cost of my healthcare if necessary. My biggest concerns prior to initiating the negotiations were 1) affecting morale if someone else is forced to compensate for my reduced hours, 2) the fact that I occasionally do freelance mobile development on the side, and 3) possibly being let go as my company is going through a downsizing. So far, it hasn't been an issue, but it's early. It turns out that my freelance work is a non-issue according to my employment contract and IP agreement. I didn't really reduce my hours to do freelance work. Instead, I was doing freelance work to insure some modest income should I be forced to resign, and I may reduce my efforts there since I can easily live just on the income from my part-time work. My boss and his boss were cool about the freelancing, but they told me to keep it to myself, and I wish that I had been more private about my side interests prior to asking to go part time. In your case, I would check up on the IP situation. You don't really want to be in a position where there are questions about who owns your side project. As far as negotiating tips, what worked for me - I don't know that this is great advice necessarily but I had to do it this way because it addressed the worst case scenario in terms of short-term income - was that I was resolved to resign, even though it wasn't really my first choice in improving my situation. However, I have about 1 year's living expenses saved up and I'm making close to $1K a week doing 20 hours of freelance mobile development and turning down projects just about every day. That gave me the confidence to start the conversation by saying, "I am considering resigning." Eventually, I suggested the work schedule that I was willing to consider. I had researched the company HR site to know what options were available to me. I also felt reasonably confident that they want me to stay and that it would be hard to replace me, at least in the short term. One thing that is bad about bringing up resignation is that it will likely keep you from collecting unemployment if your employer plays hard ball. I never said "I resign," just that I was considering it, but I have been advised since then that it was probably a bad idea from that standpoint. It probably didn't matter in my case because I wouldn't be eligible anyway due to my freelance income. Also, I have a very friendly relationship with my boss, so that helps a lot. It seemed that he really wanted to help me, and he played up the cost savings angle up the management ladder to help me get what I wanted.

leftnode 16y ago

I did literally the same exact thing and started a business in my free time.

peripitea 16y ago

May I ask what company you work for? I've never heard of HR supporting something like this at any of the companies I or my friends have worked for. Is it something they support but don't advertise? I'd love to have a setup like this in a few years.