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The Mesa/DRM stack is significantly better than Apple's, because the OpenGL implementation actually works, and Vulkan is supported on at least some hardware. A
by pcwalton 9y ago
The Mesa/DRM stack is significantly better than Apple's, because the OpenGL implementation actually works, and Vulkan is supported on at least some hardware.
At the protocol level, X isn't involved that much with the 3D graphics stack anyhow these days. Xorg simply speaks DRI3, which is just a way to marshal file descriptors representing graphics buffers over the connection. It isn't involved in the rendering happening at either end (application and compositor).
- pjmlp 9y agoMetal is fine and supported by all relevant engines, thanks. As the name says, DRI3 was yet another attempt to improve the whole performance stack on Linux. As mentioned, I did my share of FOSDEM sessions.
- jcelerier 9y ago> Metal is fine and supported by all relevant engines, thanks. thanks for the laugh
- pjmlp 9y agoProfessional game developers have a different opinion regarding graphics APIs, even those that have been strong OpenGL apologists in the past: "John Carmack: Its still OpenGL, although we obviously use a D3D-ish API [on the Xbox 360], and CG on the PS3. Its interesting how little of the technology cares what API you're using and what generation of the technology you're on. You've got a small handful of files that care about what API they're on, and millions of lines of code that are agnostic to the platform that they're on." http://fd.fabiensanglard.net/doom3/pdfs/johnc-interviews.pdf http://fd.fabiensanglard.net/doom3/pdfs/johnc-interviews.pdf AAA studios already adopted Metal on their engines, Vulkan only matters on GNU/Linux among those having supported graphics cards. On Android, it is only available as optional graphics API in 10% of devices available worldwide. On Windows, it is only supported on legacy Win32, it isn't and it won't be supported on UWP. On Nintendo Switch, there is the option to use the more lower level API NVN instead. So laugh at will, lets see which APIs game studios care about.
- littlestymaar 9y ago> AAA studios already adopted Metal on their engines Genuine question : Do AAA studio really care about metal ? Is gaming on Mac a thing now ?
- rsynnott 9y agoA good few of the major engines now support it. Gaming on the Mac is a thing to some extent. See Steam for MacOS.
- goldfire 9y agoGame engine vendors also care a great deal about iOS, since they have a large number of customers who do, so that's also driving support for Metal in those engines.
- pjmlp 9y agoNot only gaming is a thing on Mac, more than on GNU/Linux or even BSD combined, it is also a thing on iPhone, iPad and Apple TV, all with Metal support. Also Apple's augmented reality is based on Metal, and they had Valve on stage praising it at WWDC, with native support on SteamVR SDK. Finally, many of the frameworks that made use OpenGL, including the window manager, are now working on top of Metal.
- pcwalton 9y agoApple is using Metal because it's a modest improvement over OpenGL (in some areas; it's a regression in others) and, more importantly, their OpenGL implementation is extremely buggy. You haven't said anything about Vulkan vs. Metal, and you can't, because Vulkan is a better API for the reasons I described upthread.
- pjmlp 9y agoI can't say anything good about Vulkan, because I am not going to buy a new laptop or a Google Pixel just to try it out.
- proyb2 9y agoAt least Khronos will be creating Meta API for Metal, Directx and Vullan to address the difference, I hope that would just work and solve around Vulkan fragmentation and complexity that cant fit into all Apple SDK.