4 ms·

I don't believe you are correct. You can't patent math, but you can patent algorithms. This is analogous to the material world, where you can't patent physics,

I don't believe you are correct. You can't patent math, but you can patent algorithms. This is analogous to the material world, where you can't patent physics, but you can patent engineering. An algorithm isn't math, it's a series of instructions. That is something that is patentable, as long as it involves an inventive step. A more efficient sorting algorithm that is non-obvious would almost certainly be patentable.

zephyrppt 9y ago
You're partially correct. Algorithms can't be patented. However, in practice, patent drafters work around this by adding phrases such as "A memory with computer readable instructions to [Insert Algorithm]" to turn the algorithm into an invented product. The bottom line is that the invention is the memory and the processor system whose novelty is that it includes instructions which implement the particular steps of the algorithm. This practically covers all implementations of the algorithm on Von Neumann machines, in effect covering all current implementations of the algorithm.
- bluGill 9y ago
  Anything you can do in software I can do with a set of hydraulic value). Your software will be faster (a video game on my valves will take several lifetimes to display the opening), but it will work (until something leaks). thus you can translate your program to hydraulics and it is patentable.
- chris_wot 9y ago
  It's gotten harder to do this since Alice. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Corp._v._CLS_Bank_International https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Corp._v._CLS_Bank_Inte...
jacobolus 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottschalk_v._Benson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottschalk_v._Benson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_v._Flook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_v._Flook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_v._Diehr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_v._Diehr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilski_v._Kappos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilski_v._Kappos
- URSpider94 9y ago
  https://www.google.com/patents/US4558302 https://www.google.com/patents/US4558302
  - jacobolus 9y ago
    As you can see, that is a patent for an “apparatus and method”, not an algorithm per se.
    - URSpider94 9y ago
      As a holder of dozens of patents, many of them on processes derived from algorithms, I fully understand (as well as anyone can) the implications of current case law. In order to patent an algorithm, you have to re-cast it as an operation to be performed on a general purpose computer. As long as you do that, you have the patent. I fully agree that there's nothing to stop you from calculating GIF's with pencil and paper, or on an abacus, or in your head -- is that a relevant distinction, or merely an academic one? Additionally, the algorithm has to be non-trivial, which I take to mean multi-step, for it to be patentable when it's transformed into an operation performed on a general-purpose computer. Simply multiplying by a constant, even when done on a general purpose computer, is not patentable.
slaymaker1907 9y ago
The first sentence on the Wikipedia page of algorithm: "In mathematics and computer science, an algorithm is a self-contained sequence of actions to be performed. Algorithms can perform calculation, data processing and automated reasoning tasks. " An algorithm is a mathematical construct that happens to be useful with computers. See the first volume of The Art of Computer Programming for a nice formal definition of algorithm.

zephyrppt 9y ago

You're partially correct. Algorithms can't be patented. However, in practice, patent drafters work around this by adding phrases such as "A memory with computer readable instructions to [Insert Algorithm]" to turn the algorithm into an invented product. The bottom line is that the invention is the memory and the processor system whose novelty is that it includes instructions which implement the particular steps of the algorithm. This practically covers all implementations of the algorithm on Von Neumann machines, in effect covering all current implementations of the algorithm.

bluGill 9y ago
Anything you can do in software I can do with a set of hydraulic value). Your software will be faster (a video game on my valves will take several lifetimes to display the opening), but it will work (until something leaks). thus you can translate your program to hydraulics and it is patentable.
chris_wot 9y ago
It's gotten harder to do this since Alice. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Corp._v._CLS_Bank_International https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Corp._v._CLS_Bank_Inte...

jacobolus 9y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottschalk_v._Benson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottschalk_v._Benson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_v._Flook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_v._Flook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_v._Diehr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_v._Diehr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilski_v._Kappos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilski_v._Kappos

URSpider94 9y ago
https://www.google.com/patents/US4558302 https://www.google.com/patents/US4558302
- jacobolus 9y ago
  As you can see, that is a patent for an “apparatus and method”, not an algorithm per se.
  - URSpider94 9y ago
    As a holder of dozens of patents, many of them on processes derived from algorithms, I fully understand (as well as anyone can) the implications of current case law. In order to patent an algorithm, you have to re-cast it as an operation to be performed on a general purpose computer. As long as you do that, you have the patent. I fully agree that there's nothing to stop you from calculating GIF's with pencil and paper, or on an abacus, or in your head -- is that a relevant distinction, or merely an academic one? Additionally, the algorithm has to be non-trivial, which I take to mean multi-step, for it to be patentable when it's transformed into an operation performed on a general-purpose computer. Simply multiplying by a constant, even when done on a general purpose computer, is not patentable.

slaymaker1907 9y ago

The first sentence on the Wikipedia page of algorithm: "In mathematics and computer science, an algorithm is a self-contained sequence of actions to be performed. Algorithms can perform calculation, data processing and automated reasoning tasks. " An algorithm is a mathematical construct that happens to be useful with computers. See the first volume of The Art of Computer Programming for a nice formal definition of algorithm.