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p5.js – A library to make coding accessible for artists, designers, educators
- uptown 9y agoPast discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8144212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8144212
- aembleton 9y agoFirefox on MacOS and it sounds like it's about to take off.
- ryan-allen 9y agoDeveloper friendly intro: https://p5js.org/ https://p5js.org/, examples https://p5js.org/examples/ https://p5js.org/examples/ (this library is ace!)
- aplummer 9y agoUnfortunately, rendering all that text on a canvas even in your link makes it inaccessible to many people living with disability too - the same as the intro video without captions. This is a really good example of how not to use canvas.
- randoaccount108 9y agoThis. I work at a University where accessibility is a major issue when developing public-facing web apps. Any library/practice we adopt comes with a decent dose of "Will someone (minor sight issues all the way to blind) be able to use this? Someone with (minor hearing issues all the way to deaf)?" This seems promoted as a learning tool... just wouldn't fly in my department.
- aplummer 9y agoIn Australia it's now law for all government websites to be WCAG AA
- whywhywhywhy 9y agoThis seems like a petty thing to complain about to me considering how excellent the tech is and how it makes interactive graphics attainable for so many people.
- randoaccount108 9y ago...but it continues to apply to less than the entire human base that generally browse the Internet. Seems like it makes interactive graphics attainable to people who were already able to, just making their effort to achieve it less.
- lmccartz 9y agoI agree. When we made this video four years ago, we didn't know much about accessibility at all. We have been working since then to improve things. While we're going to leave this video alone as it's quite outdated (and probably remove the link from the website soon), we are building a web-based p5.js code editor that aims to be accessible to blind and low-vision users. In addition to being screen reader compatible, it will make the canvas, normally impenetrable to screen readers, accessible as well by providing and option of three different types of audio feedback based on what type of sketch you're trying to create. Claire Kearney-Volpe and Mathura Govindarajan are heading up the efforts, and Cassie Tarakajian is leading the development of the editor (more here: https://medium.com/@ProcessingOrg/a-p5-js-web-editor-for-all-64aaa3f9d767 https://medium.com/@ProcessingOrg/a-p5-js-web-editor-for-all...). We're aiming for a release very soon. We are always looking for more accessibility feature testers, so if you are interested in previewing an alpha version please email hello@5p5js.org.
- aplummer 9y ago> it will make the canvas, normally impenetrable to screen readers, accessible as well by providing and option of three different types of audio feedback based on what type of sketch you're trying to create So impressive and great to hear! This will open up the canvas to so many applications currently we can't use it for. You could build so many web components running at a smooth 60fps that are currently janky!
- jnbiche 9y agoCan we please get this link changed to the text intro, dang, or anybody? It's at: https://p5js.org/ https://p5js.org/ It's a cool project, so I don't want to downvote it, but the sound is loud and not opt-in. Or at least add a [video] tag or something. It woke up half my family.
- hoodoof 9y agoI like it.
- indigo0086 9y agoWhile loud and awkward, it's one of the better ways I have been introduced to a library. I'm kind of tired of the "<x library> is a <word I don't know> for <task I'm not aware of>ing <word soup>, it's that easy!"
- _wmd 9y agoPerhaps I'm just old and grumpy, but the video seemed to be more about the people in it than the library itself. I guess it was pretty fun to make, but bleh, a little overkill for a JS lib?
- indigo0086 9y agoHonestly I think it's great showing what it can do as there were parts of the video that were interactive. The point is to show that P5 allows you do do interactive visual applications and an introductory video that shows that you can do that is rather interesting. I just started checking out this http://hello.processing.org/editor/ http://hello.processing.org/editor/ and it is in the same spirit. I personally think this should be how all instruction should be. There really is no point in learning if doing is saved for a possible future.
- amk_ 9y agoI like how they "trick" you to engage with the video, and don't give you an option to get distracted trying to dig around the page. Normally I skip videos if I can and miss out on the high-level guided introduction. The [video] tag would be a good warning for the sound though.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y agoI don't get why that guy in the video is so excited about this. Isn't this just some interactive JS animations overlaid on top of video? I say this because at first I was also excited just by watching that guy get excited, and then suddenly I was like "wait..isn't this already possible with pretty much 100s of libraries out there?" Maybe someone can explain what makes this unique (so much so that the guy is so excited about it)?
- cycomachead 9y agop5 has also been around for a while, but even then the tech isn't the cool part. Processing was well thought out from a learnability standpoint, and p5 takes that and allows you to build some _very_ compelling lessons, modules and even whole CS courses that can be delivered and completed online. Because it's also JS, it means that if you can always augment an exercise with any of the rest of the JS ecosystem (for better or worse).
- jamesrom 9y agoHe might be excited about it because it was a novel idea 3 years ago when this was released.
- stanislavb 9y agoIn fact, I like it how excited he is. It's so entertaining :D
- chickenfries 9y agoProcessing (from which p5 takes its inspiration) has an explicit goal of being beginner friendly. I was first introduced to it in an art class. From the processing website: > For the past fourteen years, Processing has promoted software literacy, particularly within the visual arts, and visual literacy within technology. Initially created to serve as a software sketchbook and to teach programming fundamentals within a visual context, Processing has also evolved into a development tool for professionals. https://processing.org/overview/ https://processing.org/overview/ They (Shiffman, in the video) have a pretty cool youtube channel where they use processing, p5, etc to teach programming, visualization, graphics, that kind of thing. I think it used to be called "coding rainbow" but he ran into copyright trouble I'm assuming. https://www.youtube.com/user/shiffman https://www.youtube.com/user/shiffman
- krat0sprakhar 9y agop5js is an awesome library! If you're looking for ideas to play with, checkout Dan Shiffman's Youtube Channel - Coding Train[0], a series in which he build ML libraries, games and lots of fun mini-projects. 0: https://www.youtube.com/user/shiffman https://www.youtube.com/user/shiffman
- mynock 9y agoHe and Lauren also teach a couple of courses over at Kadenze: https://www.kadenze.com/courses/introduction-to-programming-for-the-visual-arts-with-p5-js https://www.kadenze.com/courses/introduction-to-programming-... https://www.kadenze.com/courses/the-nature-of-code https://www.kadenze.com/courses/the-nature-of-code (disclaimer: I work for Kadenze)
- baddox 9y agoHis coding challenges are a source of endless entertainment for me. I swear I could watch an hour a day of his unique combination of cheery, clumsy, and informative.
- jamesrom 9y agoI've built all kinds of things with d3, I've been using it for over 4 years. It's a seriously great library. However, there's a cognitive overhead of thinking in selections and update patterns... It's hard to remove state and make composable components that can work well in React, Angular, et al. While p5 sounds like the answer. We've been stripping away imperative programming on the web for the best part of it's history. Modern web development is more and more declarative every day... I just can't help shake the feeling it's a step backwards.
- Osmium 9y ago> While p5 sounds like the answer. We've been stripping away imperative programming on the web for the best part of it's history. Modern web development is more and more declarative every day... I just can't help shake the feeling it's a step backwards. Maybe, but I really like it -- a use case I'm looking at is making interactive versions of the types of figures you'd normally find in textbooks, and there's no one good library for this kind of thing. Each case is unique and has a large illustrative element. p5.js (and, before that, Processing) just allows you to get stuff done. I think that's why Processing took off so much in the artistic community too.
- rspeer 9y agoI think you're agreeing with the parent. He's saying the idea that everything's supposed to be declarative is a step backwards, because indeed sometimes you just want to write some imperative code and make something happen.
- jamesrom 9y agoExcuse my clumsy wording. I mean p5 feels like it's out of step with modern web development.
- macawfish 9y agoyou might try d3-component (https://github.com/curran/d3-component https://github.com/curran/d3-component)
- Joboman555 9y agoLink took over 10 seconds to load on iPad before I gave up.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- a1371 9y agoAt first I thought it was a video until he said that the clusters are avoiding his head. It is nice to have video interactivity like this. Also, my opinion might not be popular but kudos to them for making the introduction so dumb-proof with the video and the visuals. More projects have to do this.
- ricardobeat 9y agoWhat video? I'm on mobile and there isn't one in the index page. "Request desktop site" is not honored either, as usual.
- anotheryou 9y agohttp://hello.p5js.org/ http://hello.p5js.org/
- a1371 9y agoI think they changed the landing page. Now if you click on that "Hello!", or go to hello.p5js.org it comes up.
- Xoros 9y agoThere were a video ??? Waited 40s and nothing happened (iPhone + Safari)
- anotheryou 9y agohttp://hello.p5js.org/ http://hello.p5js.org/
- NickRRau 9y agoFor anyone who has previously read or seen Shiffman's book 'The Nature of Code', he's also ported the examples in the book(Processing) to p5.js https://github.com/shiffman/The-Nature-of-Code-Examples-p5.js https://github.com/shiffman/The-Nature-of-Code-Examples-p5.j... http://natureofcode.com/ http://natureofcode.com/
- Fifer82 9y agoThis is a great book and unique. I am impressed he ported his demos.
- bluetwo 9y agoI give them credit for putting together a fun explanation of what they are trying to do. I've used Processing Java and Processing.js, so I assume this is some continuation or extension of those projects. It might be more effective if the explanation focused on the benefits of using p5, rather than just saying "It makes a circle" or "It draws a slider" (which are features). For instance, maybe some of these are true: - p5 speeds the creation of animations on your site - p5 allows beginners to create complex interactions compatible across devices - p5 allows low-cost prototyping of game designs - p5 shrinks site size by replacing videos with animations Of course you would have to look to the community and beyond to figure of which resonate with potential users.
- gizmogwai 9y agoP5 is indeed the official port of Processing for Java (Processing.js being an independent attempt from John Resig). But like Processing, P5 is more about artistic realisations than applied use, which all of your alternate descriptions tend to lead to.
- vog 9y ago> P5 is indeed the official port of Processing for Java (Processing.js being an independent attempt from John Resig). But like Processing, P5 is more about artistic realisations than applied use, which all of your alternate descriptions tend to lead to. This sounds unnecessarily negative. Even in the light of pure artistic realisation, I found 3 of the 4 points still very good. The first point _is_ very much about artistic realisation: - p5 speeds the creation of animations on your site The second and last point are about the accessibility of the artistic stuff. Some don't care, but others want to show their stuff and all their intermediate stuff to the widest audience possible: - p5 allows beginners to create complex interactions compatible across devices - p5 shrinks site size by replacing videos with animations But as gp said, this list is just an inspiration and the real list of benefits needs to be determined empirically with the community of (potential) users.
- lqdc13 9y agoDoes there have to be such a big performance penalty? I remember flash games working really fast on my phone. However, when a bunch of (~100?) circles appeared on the screen, the video started lagging. I wonder if games/animations compiled to webassembly would work a lot faster.
- desireco42 9y agoThis is by far the most novel way to introduce a library that I've seen in a long time and also very impressive. It isn't accessible, and I don't think p5 can be accessible as well, so I guess that is OK. I really bow to such original presentation.
- extra88 9y agoCheck out this comment about p5 and accessibility :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14750486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14750486
- breerly 9y agoI just spent 30 seconds looking at a loading spinner - no thx bye p5.js
- bcruddy 9y agoI get that this is designed to facilitate "learning to code within the context of the visual arts" and I think that's great but holy shit tone down the javascript nonsense on your website. Granted, I'm not the target audience but the site was gorgeous before the animations started. Simple, complimentary colors made me want to read the carefully chosen font face.
- efficax 9y agoBut the arrows don't point to their heads.
- eng_monkey 9y agoThey are really excited people.
- colemickens 9y agoI'm a bit surprised that there aren't more comments about following the submission link and then being dropped on, what is apparently a technical product/project, with nothing but a full screen, long-form, non-transcribed video. If I hadn't read the comments here, I would've never assumed it was something technical. And I'm still not going to watch that video. Hopefully they can put together some text that I can digest accessibly...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- thomasfl 9y agoOne upvote for the interactive playground on top of a video of a friendly fellow named Dan that tells you what you can do.
- greggman 9y agoboth processing and p5.js are amazing but I'm curious are they amazing by design or by effort and luck. Bret Victor went over many of the reasons why Processing is poorly designed in his opinion http://worrydream.com/LearnableProgramming/ http://worrydream.com/LearnableProgramming/ it kind of made I feel like more of right place at right time for success rather than by design not that I have any hope of supplanting it with something better anymore than 8086 assembly being replaced something more elegant. note: much of that linked article is not related so search in page for Processing
- jwarren 9y agoI've seen Mike Brondbjerg speak a couple of times about iterative artistic development using Processing and p5.js. It's really cool stuff, and I'd suggest seeking it out if the area interests you.
- JelteF 9y agoLooks cool, but the page uses one full CPU core on Chrome on my Linux machine.
- falsedan 9y agoDid… did they render the text on the landing page as an image? edit oh no, I see the <p> elements… but the page makes the text non-selectable, and the right-click context menu acts like I clicked on the background image.
- lousken 9y agoCan't click on links in Edge (except the top menu)
- nrjames 9y agoI made a few fun tools with p5.js a little over a year ago. Image quilting: http://clayheaton.github.io/p5jsTiler/index.html http://clayheaton.github.io/p5jsTiler/index.html Genetic algorithm cartoon generator (that I never really finished): http://clayheaton.github.io/generative_cartoons/index.html http://clayheaton.github.io/generative_cartoons/index.html I love both Processing and p5.js. They're great tools for fun creative coding and also both are useful other types of prototyping and app development. Some day I'll get around to extending the image quilting sketch to generate Wang tiles.
- toisanji 9y agolove p5js, I put together this site for practicing drawing with p5js: you get challenges to draw: http://www.pushpopchallenge.com/ http://www.pushpopchallenge.com/
- franciscop 9y agoAbout the web design: please value readability a lot more; now it is quite difficult to read the text with that background. Besides that, Processing was really fun to play with back when I did, I wish you the best as well!