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The US was facing a direct nuclear threat. Risking nuclear war with the USSR was hardly an escalation. Also, there's a large difference between "risking"and "ac

The US was facing a direct nuclear threat. Risking nuclear war with the USSR was hardly an escalation. Also, there's a large difference between "risking"and "acting." China has much more to lose than gain (economically and militarily) by warring with the US over NK.

vkou 9y ago
Serious wars between evenly-matched participants always result in said participants losing more then they gain. Somehow, though, we never learn from history. If the US invaded North Korea, and China did nothing, it would be the equivalent of China invading Canada and Mexico, and the United States doing nothing but issuing nasty diplomatic protests. Even if it did not threaten its interests directly, the loss of face would be immense. Wars have been started over far less. Have you forgotten how half of the US government wanted war with Russia over Crimea? A little Ukranian province, on the other side of the world? Completely insignificant to US interests? Compared to the Crimean war, unilaterally invading North Korea is like striking a match in a gunpowder factory. I'm sure that the fools who will authorize and cheerlead it will not for one moment think that it will turn nuclear.
- mobilefriendly 9y ago
  Crimea isn't really Ukrainian, either, it is historically and ethnically Russian (and Tatar), it was an accident of Soviet history that it ended up in the country of Ukraine.
- chibg10 9y ago
  Comparing NK to Canada and Mexico is pretty silly. Neither of them threaten China with nuclear weapons, China doesn't have the capability to project military power across the Pacific and challenge the US, and the US is very friendly with both of them. I'd also argue China is more dependent economically on the US than vice versa, though that's admittedly debatable. While China ostensibly supports NK because it's preferable to the US, the relationship isn't nearly as close as US with other NAFTA nations. This is supported by the original article. It isn't as much of a face loss as you're supposing.
boomboomsubban 9y ago
China has went to war with the US over North Korea before, at a time where they didn't even have a nuclear option. Saying things won't happen due to economic and military losses is the exact rhetoric you heard before WWI and a WWII.
- chibg10 9y ago
  China very nearly didn't go into the Korean war, and was betting on getting support from the Soviets when they did. Furthermore, the US wasn't under direct threat in the Korean war and was war weary from WW2. A new Korean war would likely have a more invested US, no outside help (except potentially on the US side), and a China with worse relations with NK. In addition, the primary fear for the CCP was that the US would try to march all the way to Beijing. There's no way that would happen today, so China has much less to fear from a modern Korean War than it did in the first.
  - boomboomsubban 9y ago
    You are much more confident than I that no one would help an attacked China via North Korea and that the US would never march on Beijing for a third (fourth? Not sure how many US troops were involved in the Opium Wars) time. Both things seem very possible in a world where the US invades an ally of China.

vkou 9y ago

Serious wars between evenly-matched participants always result in said participants losing more then they gain. Somehow, though, we never learn from history. If the US invaded North Korea, and China did nothing, it would be the equivalent of China invading Canada and Mexico, and the United States doing nothing but issuing nasty diplomatic protests. Even if it did not threaten its interests directly, the loss of face would be immense. Wars have been started over far less. Have you forgotten how half of the US government wanted war with Russia over Crimea? A little Ukranian province, on the other side of the world? Completely insignificant to US interests? Compared to the Crimean war, unilaterally invading North Korea is like striking a match in a gunpowder factory. I'm sure that the fools who will authorize and cheerlead it will not for one moment think that it will turn nuclear.

mobilefriendly 9y ago
Crimea isn't really Ukrainian, either, it is historically and ethnically Russian (and Tatar), it was an accident of Soviet history that it ended up in the country of Ukraine.
chibg10 9y ago
Comparing NK to Canada and Mexico is pretty silly. Neither of them threaten China with nuclear weapons, China doesn't have the capability to project military power across the Pacific and challenge the US, and the US is very friendly with both of them. I'd also argue China is more dependent economically on the US than vice versa, though that's admittedly debatable. While China ostensibly supports NK because it's preferable to the US, the relationship isn't nearly as close as US with other NAFTA nations. This is supported by the original article. It isn't as much of a face loss as you're supposing.

boomboomsubban 9y ago

China has went to war with the US over North Korea before, at a time where they didn't even have a nuclear option. Saying things won't happen due to economic and military losses is the exact rhetoric you heard before WWI and a WWII.

chibg10 9y ago
China very nearly didn't go into the Korean war, and was betting on getting support from the Soviets when they did. Furthermore, the US wasn't under direct threat in the Korean war and was war weary from WW2. A new Korean war would likely have a more invested US, no outside help (except potentially on the US side), and a China with worse relations with NK. In addition, the primary fear for the CCP was that the US would try to march all the way to Beijing. There's no way that would happen today, so China has much less to fear from a modern Korean War than it did in the first.
- boomboomsubban 9y ago
  You are much more confident than I that no one would help an attacked China via North Korea and that the US would never march on Beijing for a third (fourth? Not sure how many US troops were involved in the Opium Wars) time. Both things seem very possible in a world where the US invades an ally of China.