4 ms·

Excellent, this will make it much easier for me to persuade people to jump ship!

acchow 9y ago
What's the realistic alternative? Don't say Signal, because I'm sure your friends have plenty of friends that don't have Signal.
- Apocryphon 9y ago
  Slack? Messenger seems to be stealing features from it the same way Instagram has been with Snapchat.
- lettergram 9y ago
  You wouldn't believe how many people I've switched to signal... Hell I even just went ahead and installed signal on my families + extended families phones. Now we all use it, and no one is the wiser.
  - acchow 9y ago
    Sure, I chat with lots of people on Signal. They all also have Messenger installed and use it. Because that's what everyone else uses.
    - Sir_Substance 9y ago
      >They all also have Messenger installed and use it. Because that's what everyone else uses. And your contention is that they will continue to do so if it sprays ads in their face?
      - 0xffff2 9y ago
        ... yeah? Is there any evidence at all that suggests that the average consumer significantly changes their behavior at all to avoid advertising?
      - skinnymuch 9y ago
        Yeah. Do you have anything showing that the average person or 95%+ of the population changes behavior just because some ads like the ones in Messenger get introduced?
- greglindahl 9y ago
  If no one's going to install any new apps, then there is no realistic alternative.
- Sir_Substance 9y ago
  SMS, because in most places local SMS is free. If that bothers you, other options I use on the regular include Skype, Steam, Wickr, Mattermost, Slack, email and XMPP. XMPP's federated nature makes it ideal for this kind of thing, but people liked the integrated nature of Facebook back in XMPP's hayday. As Facebook poisons each component of their own product, that integrated nature gets less attractive. I know one person specifically who only uses Facebook for messenger these days. This will give me an opportunity to help him leave. I don't mind what he picks to replace it as long as it doesn't require me to surrender personal data to use, and there's a rich selection of options to choose from. I know that's not good enough for you, I can think of a few people like you just based on your tone. I stopped using Facebook in ~2009, and when I did, about 95% of the people I knew swapped right back to skype without an issue, but 5% never initiated conversation with me again, because they were so completely consumed by Facebook they'd forgotten how to even remember people without it. I occasionally hit them up via other people just to keep in touch, but ultimately it's not my job to try to give them perspective.
  - acchow 9y ago
    I'd be fine with using Skype, the problem is no one I communicate with uses Skype. Same goes with Steam, Wickr, Mattermost, Slack. I think everyone uses email, but I don't have most peoples' email addresses. I'm not saying the technology in alternatives isn't there. I'm saying the network effect isn't there.
    - Sir_Substance 9y ago
      >I'd be fine with using Skype, the problem is no one I communicate with uses Skype. Have you tried asking them? I've had good experience with meeting people half way. I tell people "I'm not going to use facebook messenger. If you want to know why, I'll grab my laptop and give you the full hour long litany of every crime they've committed against their users since the company was founded, but the short version is I'm just not. I'll use any communication mechanism you chose that a) does not require facebook or google accounts and b) works even marginally on an android phone without google play services or a linux desktop.". You'd think that would be a short list, but it's not, and I've never failed to find something everyone is happy with. Once it's installed, everyone gets push notifications and no one actually cares who the provider is.

What's the realistic alternative? Don't say Signal, because I'm sure your friends have plenty of friends that don't have Signal.

Apocryphon 9y ago
Slack? Messenger seems to be stealing features from it the same way Instagram has been with Snapchat.
lettergram 9y ago
You wouldn't believe how many people I've switched to signal... Hell I even just went ahead and installed signal on my families + extended families phones. Now we all use it, and no one is the wiser.
- acchow 9y ago
  Sure, I chat with lots of people on Signal. They all also have Messenger installed and use it. Because that's what everyone else uses.
  - Sir_Substance 9y ago
    >They all also have Messenger installed and use it. Because that's what everyone else uses. And your contention is that they will continue to do so if it sprays ads in their face?
    - 0xffff2 9y ago
      ... yeah? Is there any evidence at all that suggests that the average consumer significantly changes their behavior at all to avoid advertising?
    - skinnymuch 9y ago
      Yeah. Do you have anything showing that the average person or 95%+ of the population changes behavior just because some ads like the ones in Messenger get introduced?
greglindahl 9y ago
If no one's going to install any new apps, then there is no realistic alternative.
Sir_Substance 9y ago
SMS, because in most places local SMS is free. If that bothers you, other options I use on the regular include Skype, Steam, Wickr, Mattermost, Slack, email and XMPP. XMPP's federated nature makes it ideal for this kind of thing, but people liked the integrated nature of Facebook back in XMPP's hayday. As Facebook poisons each component of their own product, that integrated nature gets less attractive. I know one person specifically who only uses Facebook for messenger these days. This will give me an opportunity to help him leave. I don't mind what he picks to replace it as long as it doesn't require me to surrender personal data to use, and there's a rich selection of options to choose from. I know that's not good enough for you, I can think of a few people like you just based on your tone. I stopped using Facebook in ~2009, and when I did, about 95% of the people I knew swapped right back to skype without an issue, but 5% never initiated conversation with me again, because they were so completely consumed by Facebook they'd forgotten how to even remember people without it. I occasionally hit them up via other people just to keep in touch, but ultimately it's not my job to try to give them perspective.
- acchow 9y ago
  I'd be fine with using Skype, the problem is no one I communicate with uses Skype. Same goes with Steam, Wickr, Mattermost, Slack. I think everyone uses email, but I don't have most peoples' email addresses. I'm not saying the technology in alternatives isn't there. I'm saying the network effect isn't there.
  - Sir_Substance 9y ago
    >I'd be fine with using Skype, the problem is no one I communicate with uses Skype. Have you tried asking them? I've had good experience with meeting people half way. I tell people "I'm not going to use facebook messenger. If you want to know why, I'll grab my laptop and give you the full hour long litany of every crime they've committed against their users since the company was founded, but the short version is I'm just not. I'll use any communication mechanism you chose that a) does not require facebook or google accounts and b) works even marginally on an android phone without google play services or a linux desktop.". You'd think that would be a short list, but it's not, and I've never failed to find something everyone is happy with. Once it's installed, everyone gets push notifications and no one actually cares who the provider is.