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In 15 years of studies, I have never ever heard anyone complaining about his own handwriting. Even with a handwriting that can be very bad for others, one can a

by wott 9y ago

In 15 years of studies, I have never ever heard anyone complaining about his own handwriting. Even with a handwriting that can be very bad for others, one can always reread 99.9% of what one has written, because it is one's own handwriting and one knows its quirks. This kind of complaint magically appeared after students got Internet-enabled laptops and were allowed to bring them at school. That's bullshit of the same level as "I can take faster and better notes with my laptop". No you can't. You can't draw graphs, you can't draw diagrams, you can't draw small maps quickly and properly as you can by hand. You can't either type fancy maths, physics and chemistry formulas as fast and as "aligned" as you can do do it by hand. "But it is searchable". Wonderful. As if you used to be lost in a 30 pages long course (which has a logical organisation and/or progression) that anyway you have to learn one way or another, by practice or rote memorisation. There is zero benefit in typing notes vs writing them down. At best, in an unlikely optimistic case, it could be equal. Laptop in a classroom are used to play, browse the web and social networks; the rest are made-up justifications to be allowed to bring them.

ue_ 9y ago
It's worth first noting that there are indeed people for whom a laptop would be much, much better, due to some disorders which produce very quick pain or tiredness in the muscles from writing, with handwriting that may be unreadable even the next day. Such people obviously greatly benefit from laptops. >There is zero benefit in typing notes vs writing them down. At best, in an unlikely optimistic case, it could be equal. Have you used org-mode? I really like the ability to organise many notes, link them together (like a small personal wiki) and others. Typing is also significantly less fatiguing, at least for my hands, and I suspect at equal or even faster speed, though I have nothing to back that up, I can type at around 110wpm comfortably. Typing notes also comes in quite handy if the course comes with digital material. You can copy that graph in, you don't have to draw it out. Tablet-laptops (if there's a word for them, I don't know it) let you draw diagrams with ease. It may also benefit to record what the lecturer is saying with the laptop's microphone, though you can do that with a separate device, it's more useful and convenient to have that as embedded media in your notes. It also means you can do things other than note-taking. If the course requires some amount of memorisation of facts with definite answers, you can use spaced repetition flashcard programs such as Anki, and fill them in during the lecture, or better, copy-and-paste from your typed up lecture notes. This is especially useful for definitions of things. Whether laptops are used as they could be used is a different matter, and my own lecturers have told me anecdotes of their misusage, though I think it's unwise to stop people who would otherwise use them well from using them. The people who misuse their laptops will find that not paying attention has consequences.
snakeanus 9y ago
> This kind of complaint magically appeared after students got Internet-enabled laptops and were allowed to bring them at school. I had the same kind of problem since elementary school, I was first allowed to use a computer during class in uni. > That's bullshit Just because it doesn't occur to you it does not mean that it's not true. Just because you started paying attention to it now it does not mean that it wasn't there before either. > No you can't Well, you might not be able to but many people can. > You can't draw graphs, you can't draw diagrams Sure you can. There are many tools for this job, both text and graphical ones. > You can't either type fancy maths, physics and chemistry formulas as fast and as "aligned" as you can do do it by hand. With Latex + Emacs I can type fancy mathematical formulas much faster and much more aligned than when writing them down. > There is zero benefit in typing notes vs writing them down Except that writing down notes for me and for many other people is useless, tiresome and distracting.
jaclaz 9y ago
>Laptop in a classroom are used to play, browse the web and social networks; the rest are made-up justifications to be allowed to bring them. As a side note, if you actually need/want to take notes on an electronic device such a laptop, it doesn't mean that the device MUST have a browser AND be connected to the internet. If there was a word processor ONLY laptop with no browser nor games on it, air-gaped from the internet, THEN it would be just a matter of preferences. And I would go a bit further on the handwriting (excluded medical conditions) having a decently readable handwriting only costs some time in exercising wanting to better it, and it is a form of respect towards yourself (when you have to re-read your notes) and towards others that may need to read what you write. Maybe you will manage to live your whole life only writing "electronically" but why risking to be unable to communicate in handwriting? Once upon a time you couldn't get past first few years of elementary schools unless you had a decent handwriting, no need for it to be "beautiful" or "calligraphic", only readable. The fact that it may be slower than typing ( and this BTW happens only for exceptionally fast and accurate typists) it's not in itself a bad thing, while you write by hand you somehow need more concentration to avoid mis-spelling as you haven't the equivalent of a backspace (or in some cases a spelling corrector) and this usually helps for memorizing what you are writing while you write it.
- compuguy 9y ago
  There was such a product as you described: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaSmart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaSmart They stopped making them in 2013.
compuguy 9y ago
I guess, you haven't read up about Dysgraphia then. When I was made aware/diagnosed (mid 1990's), we didn't have Internet-enabled lightweight laptops, but Alphasmarts (which are no longer made).

by wott 9y ago

ue_ 9y ago

It's worth first noting that there are indeed people for whom a laptop would be much, much better, due to some disorders which produce very quick pain or tiredness in the muscles from writing, with handwriting that may be unreadable even the next day. Such people obviously greatly benefit from laptops. >There is zero benefit in typing notes vs writing them down. At best, in an unlikely optimistic case, it could be equal. Have you used org-mode? I really like the ability to organise many notes, link them together (like a small personal wiki) and others. Typing is also significantly less fatiguing, at least for my hands, and I suspect at equal or even faster speed, though I have nothing to back that up, I can type at around 110wpm comfortably. Typing notes also comes in quite handy if the course comes with digital material. You can copy that graph in, you don't have to draw it out. Tablet-laptops (if there's a word for them, I don't know it) let you draw diagrams with ease. It may also benefit to record what the lecturer is saying with the laptop's microphone, though you can do that with a separate device, it's more useful and convenient to have that as embedded media in your notes. It also means you can do things other than note-taking. If the course requires some amount of memorisation of facts with definite answers, you can use spaced repetition flashcard programs such as Anki, and fill them in during the lecture, or better, copy-and-paste from your typed up lecture notes. This is especially useful for definitions of things. Whether laptops are used as they could be used is a different matter, and my own lecturers have told me anecdotes of their misusage, though I think it's unwise to stop people who would otherwise use them well from using them. The people who misuse their laptops will find that not paying attention has consequences.

snakeanus 9y ago

> This kind of complaint magically appeared after students got Internet-enabled laptops and were allowed to bring them at school. I had the same kind of problem since elementary school, I was first allowed to use a computer during class in uni. > That's bullshit Just because it doesn't occur to you it does not mean that it's not true. Just because you started paying attention to it now it does not mean that it wasn't there before either. > No you can't Well, you might not be able to but many people can. > You can't draw graphs, you can't draw diagrams Sure you can. There are many tools for this job, both text and graphical ones. > You can't either type fancy maths, physics and chemistry formulas as fast and as "aligned" as you can do do it by hand. With Latex + Emacs I can type fancy mathematical formulas much faster and much more aligned than when writing them down. > There is zero benefit in typing notes vs writing them down Except that writing down notes for me and for many other people is useless, tiresome and distracting.

jaclaz 9y ago

>Laptop in a classroom are used to play, browse the web and social networks; the rest are made-up justifications to be allowed to bring them. As a side note, if you actually need/want to take notes on an electronic device such a laptop, it doesn't mean that the device MUST have a browser AND be connected to the internet. If there was a word processor ONLY laptop with no browser nor games on it, air-gaped from the internet, THEN it would be just a matter of preferences. And I would go a bit further on the handwriting (excluded medical conditions) having a decently readable handwriting only costs some time in exercising wanting to better it, and it is a form of respect towards yourself (when you have to re-read your notes) and towards others that may need to read what you write. Maybe you will manage to live your whole life only writing "electronically" but why risking to be unable to communicate in handwriting? Once upon a time you couldn't get past first few years of elementary schools unless you had a decent handwriting, no need for it to be "beautiful" or "calligraphic", only readable. The fact that it may be slower than typing ( and this BTW happens only for exceptionally fast and accurate typists) it's not in itself a bad thing, while you write by hand you somehow need more concentration to avoid mis-spelling as you haven't the equivalent of a backspace (or in some cases a spelling corrector) and this usually helps for memorizing what you are writing while you write it.

compuguy 9y ago
There was such a product as you described: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaSmart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaSmart They stopped making them in 2013.

compuguy 9y ago

I guess, you haven't read up about Dysgraphia then. When I was made aware/diagnosed (mid 1990's), we didn't have Internet-enabled lightweight laptops, but Alphasmarts (which are no longer made).