3 ms·

I mean, it is kind of strange that with one apt-get install, one apt-get purge, one apt-get autoremove, and one pinfile in /etc/apt, you can replace systemd in

I mean, it is kind of strange that with one apt-get install, one apt-get purge, one apt-get autoremove, and one pinfile in /etc/apt, you can replace systemd in Debian. You'd think Devuan could just do that and redistribute or something.

dijit 9y ago
Gnome and udev have hard dependencies on systemd now, parts of KDE do too (try installing k3b for example, can't be done without systemd). It's not as simple as you think, unless the machine is a minimal deployment, in which case it works (I've got a docker host machine that runs runit instead of systemd)
smhenderson 9y ago
It's not systemd that's the problem, it's libsystemd0. Try removing it on Stretch. It's doable [0] but it's a pain and makes future maintenance fragile and error prone. And if I understand correctly once you do so you're not running Gnome on that system anymore... [0] http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/ http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/
- bandrami 9y ago
  I don't run dbus, let alone Gnome. (getting X11 to work without dbus on Debian is also a pain, though also doable.)
- catdog 9y ago
  Which is a purely religious problem as libsystemd0 basically does nothing if systemd is not running. Debian is a binary distribution, a lot of stuff is linked against libs you probably never use, that's just how it is.
  - smhenderson 9y ago
    I didn't say it was being used but the Devuan project wants it out of their distro and dependencies on it are much harder to resolve than dependencies on systemd bins.
ilovecookiestoo 9y ago
The people behind devuan.org had massive problems renewing their SSL certificates, taking months(!) to do so while people wrote on the mailing lists. You know, cron is hard for a self-proclaimed "veteran admin". What makes you think they could "just" do anything in less than several years? :^)
JdeBP 9y ago
You've omitted inventing and adding pre-seed hooks to the installer, let alone improving the installer so that the user does not have to muck about with preseed hooks in the first place. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14580024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14580024 On that subject, the Debian Installer has an interesting bug in the current version. * https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=866206 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=866206 (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14710986 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14710986)

dijit 9y ago

Gnome and udev have hard dependencies on systemd now, parts of KDE do too (try installing k3b for example, can't be done without systemd). It's not as simple as you think, unless the machine is a minimal deployment, in which case it works (I've got a docker host machine that runs runit instead of systemd)

smhenderson 9y ago

It's not systemd that's the problem, it's libsystemd0. Try removing it on Stretch. It's doable [0] but it's a pain and makes future maintenance fragile and error prone. And if I understand correctly once you do so you're not running Gnome on that system anymore... [0] http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/ http://lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/

bandrami 9y ago
I don't run dbus, let alone Gnome. (getting X11 to work without dbus on Debian is also a pain, though also doable.)
catdog 9y ago
Which is a purely religious problem as libsystemd0 basically does nothing if systemd is not running. Debian is a binary distribution, a lot of stuff is linked against libs you probably never use, that's just how it is.
- smhenderson 9y ago
  I didn't say it was being used but the Devuan project wants it out of their distro and dependencies on it are much harder to resolve than dependencies on systemd bins.

ilovecookiestoo 9y ago

The people behind devuan.org had massive problems renewing their SSL certificates, taking months(!) to do so while people wrote on the mailing lists. You know, cron is hard for a self-proclaimed "veteran admin". What makes you think they could "just" do anything in less than several years? :^)

JdeBP 9y ago

You've omitted inventing and adding pre-seed hooks to the installer, let alone improving the installer so that the user does not have to muck about with preseed hooks in the first place. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14580024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14580024 On that subject, the Debian Installer has an interesting bug in the current version. * https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=866206 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=866206 (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14710986 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14710986)