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>I opened up a word processor, focused my eyes on the professor's slides or visual aids, and typed everything I saw There are studies that show that verbatim c

>I opened up a word processor, focused my eyes on the professor's slides or visual aids, and typed everything I saw There are studies that show that verbatim computer note taking is actually inferior to remembering the lecture content: A Learning Secret: Don’t Take Notes with a Laptop https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-learning-secret-don-t-take-notes-with-a-laptop/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-learning-secret...

discreditable 9y ago
I'd really like to see a comparison of written notes on a laptop vs paper. Many schools are moving towards tablet PC devices to enable handwritten notes on the computer.
- killjoywashere 9y ago
  I did this study! In med school I did a survey of my class. I asked them to estimate how many hours they spent engaged in various study behaviors, and asked as one question, what quintile of the class they thought they stood in. Allowing for the Duning-Kruger effect, taking notes by hand was one of the top three things you could do (out of about 30), taking no notes had no effect, and taking notes with a laptop was the single worst idea you could have. N = 84 of 150.
  - discreditable 9y ago
    What I meant was taking notes "by hand" on a computer using a stylus.
  - mikecsh 9y ago
    Sounds like a neat study - would you be willing to share your write-up?
ericcumbee 9y ago
Maybe they aren't as effective as hand written notes. but in my case Neatly typed, well organized notes using OneNote 2003 were more effective than hastily hand written mostly illegible notes.
- nambit 9y ago
  The reason hand written notes are more effective is that it helps towards better learning just by writing the thing down and slowing it to a pace where your mind can make memories. Even if afterwards the notes are completely illegible, I would argue it's more effective than typed notes.
  - noxToken 9y ago
    Wouldn't that only be effective insofar as initial recall goes? If the handwriting is illegible and you don't remember something, then you've missed out on everything that you can't remember. Digital notes may make you miss more on the first pass, but at least you'll have material to study.
    - bluGill 9y ago
      75% of the value of notes is it helps me keep focused. My mind wants to wander away ("that reminds me of...") - 10 minutes latter I realize I've been daydreaming about some camping trip years ago and I have no idea what the lecture is about anymore. Taking notes helps me focus by giving me a goal: what about the lecture is important enough that I want to write it down. Sometimes I review my notes latter, but generally I find it isn't worth the time.
  - preben 9y ago
    Slowing down to a pace comfortable for you means, at least in my classes, that you'll miss the next thing in the presentation. Notes are not for immediate learning, they're for assisting in learning later on. As an physics engineering student, I take notes with a combination of LaTeX and OneNote on my Surface 3. Additional benefits by using a laptop to take notes is that they are searchable, archived and accessible for however long you like, and sharable between classmates. Hand written notes can obviously be shared and archived as well, but nowhere near as easily.
    - mamon 9y ago
      >> Slowing down to a pace comfortable for you means, at least in my classes, that you'll miss the next thing in the presentation. That's exactly the point: you get a free exercise in divided attention, plus you are forced to digest your notes to only essentials, not full transcript of the lecture. That process is what makes handwritten notes superior - it forces you to focus and think, not just mindlessly type. And for things that you didn't have time to note you still have a textbook. Handwritten notes are just outline, a basis to build upon.
ksk 9y ago
>There are studies that show that verbatim computer note taking is actually inferior to remembering the lecture content: I think people should be careful when looking at such things. 'There are studies' is not really the same as 'there is scientific consensus with demonstrated repeatability'. Ultimately though, you can't tell someone they're doing it wrong when they're successful, so YMMV.
- twinkletwinkle 9y ago
  Also a generalized statistical result doesn't really apply to an individual. Maybe verbatim note taking is inferior for 98% of people. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it if it works for you.
jerrylives 9y ago
It's almost as if people can live their own lives and figure out if note taking on a computer works or doesn't for them?
Bartweiss 9y ago
That's a pretty unrealistic experiment, though. The full study is paywalled, but based on the SA article it had students take notes two ways, then tested them on retention and synthesis later - without any secondary study. That's not necessarily a good mirror for actual long-running courses. I used both approaches in college. Longhand note-taking was vastly better for my retention of material, I don't dispute that. But computer transcription let me get everything, and sometimes that mattered more. I had to study more outside class when I typed, but I was aware of that and it was a worthwhile tradeoff for completeness. Professors are not necessarily good, or even tolerable, at supporting effective learning strategies. They can click through dense Powerpoint slides faster than I can type or write. And they can refuse to release those slides, then test on material from them not available elsewhere. If writing means I get 60% and retain it, while typing means I get 90% and have to study further, typing wins without question. More broadly, my take would be: many real classrooms are vastly less student-friendly than your average study environment. That changes what works.
joshvm 9y ago
I took a two pass approach: hand written notes (I can write equations faster than I can LaTeX them) and then follow up by writing a LaTeX document for each lecture. I had a rule that I wasn't allowed to continue typing up until I understood how each step in the derivation was made. If it was non-obvious, I'd write textbook-style comments around things to explain how to get from line to the next. Worked pretty well for most courses and meant I had explanations of everything come revise time. The only problem is it took about 4 years to really nail down the routine and by the time I had it perfect (I really wish I'd done it in first year), it was time to leave. Such is life.
- legolassexyman 9y ago
  You typeset all your lecture notes? I'm not sure this would benefit a student. Something I wish I did when I was in school is download the solutions manuals and work problems. I considered that cheating when I was in school but now I think it is just being time effective.
  - joshvm 9y ago
    Horses for courses, as it were. I both wrote (in lecture) and typeset (at home). I spent a lot of time trying to optimise the revision process. All I can say is that it worked for me and I got a good grade. Typesetting gave me a set of digital, neat lectures notes (goodbye folders of paper). I also understood everything better because I'd read through it twice. Most importantly it was good bargaining material for skipping lectures and getting notes from other people. I also flash-carded all my lectures in 3rd/4th year which undoubtedly bumped my grade up. The key was timing it so your peak recall was at the exam, given the volume of information. It was useless for long term memory though.
  - Broken_Hippo 9y ago
    "You typeset all your lecture notes? I'm not sure this would benefit a student." The poster is doing this in addition to actually writing the notes - I've done something similar. Sometimes I take the initial notes on a computer. Later I hand-write them once or twice. Once immediately and once later on to narrow focus down on things I was having more trouble remembering. The biggest benefit is that such a system gives some repetition. For me, this repetition is superior to only reading notes because I wind up working with the information physically as it changes form. I do get better results in some subjects if I work plenty of problems in addition to this - for example, foreign/second language and maths. The only times I've found this sort of thing generally unhelpful is with things like music, art, and physical education/sports. These rely on a lot of muscle memory, and it is hard to get by writing. The common thread in all of these is practice and review. The main difference is in the way they are carried out.
porterrobertson 9y ago
Apparently writing in cursive is superior to non-cursive when it comes to remembering what you wrote down too. That being said I take notes on my laptop all the time just because I like having everything stored in one place, backed up, organized, etc..
observation 9y ago
I believe that is true, but it is also faster to type than write so if you type twice as fast but remember 50% less it's a wash.

discreditable 9y ago

I'd really like to see a comparison of written notes on a laptop vs paper. Many schools are moving towards tablet PC devices to enable handwritten notes on the computer.

killjoywashere 9y ago
I did this study! In med school I did a survey of my class. I asked them to estimate how many hours they spent engaged in various study behaviors, and asked as one question, what quintile of the class they thought they stood in. Allowing for the Duning-Kruger effect, taking notes by hand was one of the top three things you could do (out of about 30), taking no notes had no effect, and taking notes with a laptop was the single worst idea you could have. N = 84 of 150.
- discreditable 9y ago
  What I meant was taking notes "by hand" on a computer using a stylus.
- mikecsh 9y ago
  Sounds like a neat study - would you be willing to share your write-up?

ericcumbee 9y ago

Maybe they aren't as effective as hand written notes. but in my case Neatly typed, well organized notes using OneNote 2003 were more effective than hastily hand written mostly illegible notes.

nambit 9y ago
The reason hand written notes are more effective is that it helps towards better learning just by writing the thing down and slowing it to a pace where your mind can make memories. Even if afterwards the notes are completely illegible, I would argue it's more effective than typed notes.
- noxToken 9y ago
  Wouldn't that only be effective insofar as initial recall goes? If the handwriting is illegible and you don't remember something, then you've missed out on everything that you can't remember. Digital notes may make you miss more on the first pass, but at least you'll have material to study.
  - bluGill 9y ago
    75% of the value of notes is it helps me keep focused. My mind wants to wander away ("that reminds me of...") - 10 minutes latter I realize I've been daydreaming about some camping trip years ago and I have no idea what the lecture is about anymore. Taking notes helps me focus by giving me a goal: what about the lecture is important enough that I want to write it down. Sometimes I review my notes latter, but generally I find it isn't worth the time.
- preben 9y ago
  Slowing down to a pace comfortable for you means, at least in my classes, that you'll miss the next thing in the presentation. Notes are not for immediate learning, they're for assisting in learning later on. As an physics engineering student, I take notes with a combination of LaTeX and OneNote on my Surface 3. Additional benefits by using a laptop to take notes is that they are searchable, archived and accessible for however long you like, and sharable between classmates. Hand written notes can obviously be shared and archived as well, but nowhere near as easily.
  - mamon 9y ago
    >> Slowing down to a pace comfortable for you means, at least in my classes, that you'll miss the next thing in the presentation. That's exactly the point: you get a free exercise in divided attention, plus you are forced to digest your notes to only essentials, not full transcript of the lecture. That process is what makes handwritten notes superior - it forces you to focus and think, not just mindlessly type. And for things that you didn't have time to note you still have a textbook. Handwritten notes are just outline, a basis to build upon.

ksk 9y ago

>There are studies that show that verbatim computer note taking is actually inferior to remembering the lecture content: I think people should be careful when looking at such things. 'There are studies' is not really the same as 'there is scientific consensus with demonstrated repeatability'. Ultimately though, you can't tell someone they're doing it wrong when they're successful, so YMMV.

twinkletwinkle 9y ago
Also a generalized statistical result doesn't really apply to an individual. Maybe verbatim note taking is inferior for 98% of people. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it if it works for you.

jerrylives 9y ago

It's almost as if people can live their own lives and figure out if note taking on a computer works or doesn't for them?

Bartweiss 9y ago

That's a pretty unrealistic experiment, though. The full study is paywalled, but based on the SA article it had students take notes two ways, then tested them on retention and synthesis later - without any secondary study. That's not necessarily a good mirror for actual long-running courses. I used both approaches in college. Longhand note-taking was vastly better for my retention of material, I don't dispute that. But computer transcription let me get everything, and sometimes that mattered more. I had to study more outside class when I typed, but I was aware of that and it was a worthwhile tradeoff for completeness. Professors are not necessarily good, or even tolerable, at supporting effective learning strategies. They can click through dense Powerpoint slides faster than I can type or write. And they can refuse to release those slides, then test on material from them not available elsewhere. If writing means I get 60% and retain it, while typing means I get 90% and have to study further, typing wins without question. More broadly, my take would be: many real classrooms are vastly less student-friendly than your average study environment. That changes what works.

joshvm 9y ago

I took a two pass approach: hand written notes (I can write equations faster than I can LaTeX them) and then follow up by writing a LaTeX document for each lecture. I had a rule that I wasn't allowed to continue typing up until I understood how each step in the derivation was made. If it was non-obvious, I'd write textbook-style comments around things to explain how to get from line to the next. Worked pretty well for most courses and meant I had explanations of everything come revise time. The only problem is it took about 4 years to really nail down the routine and by the time I had it perfect (I really wish I'd done it in first year), it was time to leave. Such is life.

legolassexyman 9y ago
You typeset all your lecture notes? I'm not sure this would benefit a student. Something I wish I did when I was in school is download the solutions manuals and work problems. I considered that cheating when I was in school but now I think it is just being time effective.
- joshvm 9y ago
  Horses for courses, as it were. I both wrote (in lecture) and typeset (at home). I spent a lot of time trying to optimise the revision process. All I can say is that it worked for me and I got a good grade. Typesetting gave me a set of digital, neat lectures notes (goodbye folders of paper). I also understood everything better because I'd read through it twice. Most importantly it was good bargaining material for skipping lectures and getting notes from other people. I also flash-carded all my lectures in 3rd/4th year which undoubtedly bumped my grade up. The key was timing it so your peak recall was at the exam, given the volume of information. It was useless for long term memory though.
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago
  "You typeset all your lecture notes? I'm not sure this would benefit a student." The poster is doing this in addition to actually writing the notes - I've done something similar. Sometimes I take the initial notes on a computer. Later I hand-write them once or twice. Once immediately and once later on to narrow focus down on things I was having more trouble remembering. The biggest benefit is that such a system gives some repetition. For me, this repetition is superior to only reading notes because I wind up working with the information physically as it changes form. I do get better results in some subjects if I work plenty of problems in addition to this - for example, foreign/second language and maths. The only times I've found this sort of thing generally unhelpful is with things like music, art, and physical education/sports. These rely on a lot of muscle memory, and it is hard to get by writing. The common thread in all of these is practice and review. The main difference is in the way they are carried out.

porterrobertson 9y ago

Apparently writing in cursive is superior to non-cursive when it comes to remembering what you wrote down too. That being said I take notes on my laptop all the time just because I like having everything stored in one place, backed up, organized, etc..

observation 9y ago

I believe that is true, but it is also faster to type than write so if you type twice as fast but remember 50% less it's a wash.