6 ms·

"Nothing is that it seems" typically makes for a horrible experience, for me at least. Can you explain it any better than that?

Finnucane 9y ago
The conceit is that the narrator has an eidetic memory, or at least claims to. And at the same time, it is apparent that he is not always a reliable or honest narrator, not does he always fully understand what is going on in front of him. The narrator is also being manipulated by alien powers beyond his control. The relationships of the characters are weird and complicated. And it is true--Wolfe deliberately constructed the books so that rereading them would make these connections apparent in different ways. (I should say that Shadow of the Torturer was published when I was 17, and over the next decade I must have gone through the series four or five times, even taking up a correspondence with Gene, who was actually pretty good about answering questions).
- observation 9y ago
  If you get another opportunity to write, I'd like to ask Wolfe whether there exists an allegory with the present world Wolfe lived through e.g. The Oil Shocks in the 70s, the esotericization of Nuclear Energy, the half century unvisited moon. I want to know whether the "New Sun" is symbolic of nuclear power in the present. I wondered reading the book whether Gene Wolfe was writing of a Dark Age in the present because the very first few words out of Sevarian's record are "presentiments of the future", which I thought to be kind of telling given the historical circumstances Wolfe has lived, especially since he obviously has the mind of an engineer.
observation 9y ago
Typically I'd agree. I don't mean the text has no answers or is subjective - the text does contain the answers to nearly every puzzling thing within it, if you can see it. Wolfe is an engineer and the pieces fit together. Neil Gaiman has a nice essay on how to read it properly (Gene Wolfe is the favorite author of many famous authors you've heard of): https://www.sfsite.com/fsf/2007/gwng0704.htm https://www.sfsite.com/fsf/2007/gwng0704.htm The main character is an unreliable narrator. However consider all the veils that would have to be cast aside to understand reality: 1. The narrator could be lying to you. 2. The narrator could not understand what is truly happening. 3. The narrator may have mental models which are not accurate. 4. The narrator may be passing on inaccurate information or lies. 5. The narrator may be using words in a way that you think you understand, but do not. 6. The narrator may be expecting you to implicitly understand something that you do not e.g. we make certain assumptions about information because the Internet now exists, something similar exists in the world of the New Sun. 7. The narrator may be using the language of metaphor to describe something that is quite real but not what we think it is. 8. The narrator may not be one person. This won't make sense until you read the book. 9. The narrator could be telling you the truth, but you merely do not understand what he is really saying. 10. The narrator may not be lying at all, merely leaving out information that makes him look bad. I could go on for many more points. I found thinking of Vernadsky's theories useful while reading it. If reading Gene Wolfe does not fire up your neurons, nothing will. Again: the answers are in the text, it is not subjective in my experience, but you're going to have to think real hard on many different levels. Your understanding of the New Sun's world will be in flux for the duration of the book. Gene Wolfe gives you the answer, but he gives it once so you have to pay close attention. If something puzzles you, tuck it away and keep reading.
- gasbag 9y ago
  That's a good list. I'm curious about what you're referring to in 6. The only thing I can think of is beneath Nessus, but I can't for the life of me recall how it plays into what Severian writes (or perhaps rather what he doesn't). It's been a few long years since I was last there though.
  - observation 9y ago
    Possible spoiler alert: Can think of two examples. I am readying myself for a reread (including Urth, as yet unread), so this is all IIRC, but there is a paragraph mentioning how Erebus or Abaia have influence in the world - likely through a computer network similar to the Internet (as telegraph to Net, Net to ...) but unimaginably more sophisticated e.g. embedded into everything, like the IoT. Of course there are other entities with access to infrastructure that the peasants are either ignorant of or dimly aware of e.g. cacogens, Father Inire. Another example is Jonas's past life as a sailor. I believe at first he is a sailor, but later... very poetic. The bit that is bugging me about BOTNS is part of the final book, where a young woman is seen by Sevarian in an old part of the city - it's beautifully written and this feels familiar but I can't place it, I know there's something I'm missing about that experience. That has settled it, next time I take notes ;-) Great moments for me include: Sevarian's explanation of his craft's morality (which he later discounts!) The battle of the flowers. I could see it. Realizing Agia's betrayal. Rethinking everything I've read after the gemstone, and then again after the nature of Sevarian's role is uncovered, and again as I realize the meaning of a Autarch. The Ascians! So much more. Often I'll realize something about it hours or days later after reading. Note: if you read this past the spoiler alert, do not be afraid, read the book!
  - observation 9y ago
    I'm rereading now and have spotted a third example: <spoiler alert> Severian describes how Master Gurloes is an educated man and that he talks to other people/beings through something like a radio network at the top of the Tower. It was phrased like this: "He was the only one of our guild - Master Palaemon not excepted - who was unafraid of the energies there and the unseen mouths who spoke sometimes to human beings and sometimes to other mouths in other towers and keeps."

Finnucane 9y ago

The conceit is that the narrator has an eidetic memory, or at least claims to. And at the same time, it is apparent that he is not always a reliable or honest narrator, not does he always fully understand what is going on in front of him. The narrator is also being manipulated by alien powers beyond his control. The relationships of the characters are weird and complicated. And it is true--Wolfe deliberately constructed the books so that rereading them would make these connections apparent in different ways. (I should say that Shadow of the Torturer was published when I was 17, and over the next decade I must have gone through the series four or five times, even taking up a correspondence with Gene, who was actually pretty good about answering questions).

observation 9y ago
If you get another opportunity to write, I'd like to ask Wolfe whether there exists an allegory with the present world Wolfe lived through e.g. The Oil Shocks in the 70s, the esotericization of Nuclear Energy, the half century unvisited moon. I want to know whether the "New Sun" is symbolic of nuclear power in the present. I wondered reading the book whether Gene Wolfe was writing of a Dark Age in the present because the very first few words out of Sevarian's record are "presentiments of the future", which I thought to be kind of telling given the historical circumstances Wolfe has lived, especially since he obviously has the mind of an engineer.

observation 9y ago

Typically I'd agree. I don't mean the text has no answers or is subjective - the text does contain the answers to nearly every puzzling thing within it, if you can see it. Wolfe is an engineer and the pieces fit together. Neil Gaiman has a nice essay on how to read it properly (Gene Wolfe is the favorite author of many famous authors you've heard of): https://www.sfsite.com/fsf/2007/gwng0704.htm https://www.sfsite.com/fsf/2007/gwng0704.htm The main character is an unreliable narrator. However consider all the veils that would have to be cast aside to understand reality: 1. The narrator could be lying to you. 2. The narrator could not understand what is truly happening. 3. The narrator may have mental models which are not accurate. 4. The narrator may be passing on inaccurate information or lies. 5. The narrator may be using words in a way that you think you understand, but do not. 6. The narrator may be expecting you to implicitly understand something that you do not e.g. we make certain assumptions about information because the Internet now exists, something similar exists in the world of the New Sun. 7. The narrator may be using the language of metaphor to describe something that is quite real but not what we think it is. 8. The narrator may not be one person. This won't make sense until you read the book. 9. The narrator could be telling you the truth, but you merely do not understand what he is really saying. 10. The narrator may not be lying at all, merely leaving out information that makes him look bad. I could go on for many more points. I found thinking of Vernadsky's theories useful while reading it. If reading Gene Wolfe does not fire up your neurons, nothing will. Again: the answers are in the text, it is not subjective in my experience, but you're going to have to think real hard on many different levels. Your understanding of the New Sun's world will be in flux for the duration of the book. Gene Wolfe gives you the answer, but he gives it once so you have to pay close attention. If something puzzles you, tuck it away and keep reading.

gasbag 9y ago
That's a good list. I'm curious about what you're referring to in 6. The only thing I can think of is beneath Nessus, but I can't for the life of me recall how it plays into what Severian writes (or perhaps rather what he doesn't). It's been a few long years since I was last there though.
- observation 9y ago
  Possible spoiler alert: Can think of two examples. I am readying myself for a reread (including Urth, as yet unread), so this is all IIRC, but there is a paragraph mentioning how Erebus or Abaia have influence in the world - likely through a computer network similar to the Internet (as telegraph to Net, Net to ...) but unimaginably more sophisticated e.g. embedded into everything, like the IoT. Of course there are other entities with access to infrastructure that the peasants are either ignorant of or dimly aware of e.g. cacogens, Father Inire. Another example is Jonas's past life as a sailor. I believe at first he is a sailor, but later... very poetic. The bit that is bugging me about BOTNS is part of the final book, where a young woman is seen by Sevarian in an old part of the city - it's beautifully written and this feels familiar but I can't place it, I know there's something I'm missing about that experience. That has settled it, next time I take notes ;-) Great moments for me include: Sevarian's explanation of his craft's morality (which he later discounts!) The battle of the flowers. I could see it. Realizing Agia's betrayal. Rethinking everything I've read after the gemstone, and then again after the nature of Sevarian's role is uncovered, and again as I realize the meaning of a Autarch. The Ascians! So much more. Often I'll realize something about it hours or days later after reading. Note: if you read this past the spoiler alert, do not be afraid, read the book!
- observation 9y ago
  I'm rereading now and have spotted a third example: <spoiler alert> Severian describes how Master Gurloes is an educated man and that he talks to other people/beings through something like a radio network at the top of the Tower. It was phrased like this: "He was the only one of our guild - Master Palaemon not excepted - who was unafraid of the energies there and the unseen mouths who spoke sometimes to human beings and sometimes to other mouths in other towers and keeps."