9 ms·

I'm not a fan of the argument that if Blackbird weren't a NPE it'd be okay because Cloudflare could then aim it's 150 strong patent portfolio cannon back at the

I'm not a fan of the argument that if Blackbird weren't a NPE it'd be okay because Cloudflare could then aim it's 150 strong patent portfolio cannon back at them. It's basically saying incumbents like Cloudflare don't really want to fix the system, they want to keep the untenable 'cold war' status quo which protects them but burdens new entrants.

tracker1 9y ago
Frankly, if it weren't for the stupidity of the patent system, I don't know that Cloudflare would even have the patents. Has Cloudflare ever initiated patent litigation against anyone? The fact is that most patents for things that are "invented" but entirely virtually don't really deserve patent protection. Rarely is there significant research, expense or tooling to implement. Patents on software, processes and most extension patents are ridiculous in premise. That's what trade secrets are for.
- jgrahamc 9y ago
  Has Cloudflare ever initiated patent litigation against anyone? No, we have not.
  - prutschman 9y ago
    Have you ever threatened to, or alluded to your ability to do so, to obtain commercial negotiating leverage in a context other than defending the company from the threat of a patent suit?
    - jgrahamc 9y ago
      Not to my knowledge.
    - mobilefriendly 9y ago
      Who cares? Cloudflare are a practicing entity, presumably with legitimate patents. They aren't necessarily at war with software patents as a concept, just the obvious abuse.
      - Kliment 9y ago
        There is no such thing as a legitimate patent.
        tracker1 9y ago
        As much as I am against software patents in general, that isn't entirely true... I would say that most patents aren't, or shouldn't be legitimate, not that none of them are.
    - eastdakota 9y ago
      No, we have not.
- siliconc0w 9y ago
  Even if the companies only hoard these to defend themselves when they go under their patents get picked up by NPEs. It's like nuclear weapons, MAD kinda works but then a state fails and now you have terrorists with nukes. The answer is disarmament. If you want to enlist the help of the community you should have to pull a Tesla and open your patents or at the very least advocate for the abolishment of software and process patents. By crying foul and appealing to the community Cloudflare, like Blackbird, wants to have it both ways. They continue to advocate for and benefit from the ridiculous status quo but don't want to be subject to it when it inevitably goes awry.
  - rictic 9y ago
    Just so we're clear though, the disarmament that we should aim for is to change physics so that nuclear weapons don't work at all, right? Because that's an option, we could change how the patent system works.
    - k__ 9y ago
      Wat?
      - Terr_ 9y ago
        They're critiquing the analogy to nuclear weapons. Patent-weapons can be voided by altering the underlying legal framework, but nuclear-weapons can't be voided by changing the underlying rules of physics. ...Or at least, not yet.
    - CamperBob2 9y ago
      Land mines are a much better metaphor for patents than nuclear weapons are. Say what you will about the evils of nuclear warfare, but we haven't seen any world wars lately, and nuclear weapons are to thank for that state of affairs. Patents (and land mines) are a lot less useful to society.
      - eridius 9y ago
calafrax 9y ago
Everyone is a "troll" when they are suing you. When you are suing other people they are thieves stealing your innovation. These lawyers are doing great work by creating a market that allows innovators to profit from their work even if they don't have the capital to commercialize their innovations themselves. The incumbents can cry about this but even if they have never sued anyone for infringement their valuations are still based on their portfolios and they still use the threat to suppress competition and when they are over a barrel for cash they will monetize those patents either themselves or by selling to another "troll." Individual software engineers who invent new technologies deserve to get compensated the same as anyone else for their inventions.
- KnoopKnoop 9y ago
  That's all well and good, but it's impossible to argue that point when people are awarded patents where previous work exists that the patent office failed to investigate enough.
- fapjacks 9y ago
  But these aren't "individual software engineers who invent new technologies", now are they, shill? As stated in the article -- which I'm sure, based on what you've said here, you haven't read -- the "individual software engineer who invented new technology" made his one United States dollar in selling it to these vampires. Get a job.

tracker1 9y ago

Frankly, if it weren't for the stupidity of the patent system, I don't know that Cloudflare would even have the patents. Has Cloudflare ever initiated patent litigation against anyone? The fact is that most patents for things that are "invented" but entirely virtually don't really deserve patent protection. Rarely is there significant research, expense or tooling to implement. Patents on software, processes and most extension patents are ridiculous in premise. That's what trade secrets are for.

jgrahamc 9y ago
Has Cloudflare ever initiated patent litigation against anyone? No, we have not.
- prutschman 9y ago
  Have you ever threatened to, or alluded to your ability to do so, to obtain commercial negotiating leverage in a context other than defending the company from the threat of a patent suit?
  - jgrahamc 9y ago
    Not to my knowledge.
  - mobilefriendly 9y ago
    Who cares? Cloudflare are a practicing entity, presumably with legitimate patents. They aren't necessarily at war with software patents as a concept, just the obvious abuse.
    - Kliment 9y ago
      There is no such thing as a legitimate patent.
      - tracker1 9y ago
        As much as I am against software patents in general, that isn't entirely true... I would say that most patents aren't, or shouldn't be legitimate, not that none of them are.
  - eastdakota 9y ago
    No, we have not.
siliconc0w 9y ago
Even if the companies only hoard these to defend themselves when they go under their patents get picked up by NPEs. It's like nuclear weapons, MAD kinda works but then a state fails and now you have terrorists with nukes. The answer is disarmament. If you want to enlist the help of the community you should have to pull a Tesla and open your patents or at the very least advocate for the abolishment of software and process patents. By crying foul and appealing to the community Cloudflare, like Blackbird, wants to have it both ways. They continue to advocate for and benefit from the ridiculous status quo but don't want to be subject to it when it inevitably goes awry.
- rictic 9y ago
  Just so we're clear though, the disarmament that we should aim for is to change physics so that nuclear weapons don't work at all, right? Because that's an option, we could change how the patent system works.
  - k__ 9y ago
    Wat?
    - Terr_ 9y ago
      They're critiquing the analogy to nuclear weapons. Patent-weapons can be voided by altering the underlying legal framework, but nuclear-weapons can't be voided by changing the underlying rules of physics. ...Or at least, not yet.
  - CamperBob2 9y ago
    Land mines are a much better metaphor for patents than nuclear weapons are. Say what you will about the evils of nuclear warfare, but we haven't seen any world wars lately, and nuclear weapons are to thank for that state of affairs. Patents (and land mines) are a lot less useful to society.
    - eridius 9y ago

calafrax 9y ago

Everyone is a "troll" when they are suing you. When you are suing other people they are thieves stealing your innovation. These lawyers are doing great work by creating a market that allows innovators to profit from their work even if they don't have the capital to commercialize their innovations themselves. The incumbents can cry about this but even if they have never sued anyone for infringement their valuations are still based on their portfolios and they still use the threat to suppress competition and when they are over a barrel for cash they will monetize those patents either themselves or by selling to another "troll." Individual software engineers who invent new technologies deserve to get compensated the same as anyone else for their inventions.

KnoopKnoop 9y ago
That's all well and good, but it's impossible to argue that point when people are awarded patents where previous work exists that the patent office failed to investigate enough.
fapjacks 9y ago
But these aren't "individual software engineers who invent new technologies", now are they, shill? As stated in the article -- which I'm sure, based on what you've said here, you haven't read -- the "individual software engineer who invented new technology" made his one United States dollar in selling it to these vampires. Get a job.