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> The meta-assumption that you are making in your argument is that there exists a general will in both western society and Chinese society -- which is equivalen
by dis-sys 9y ago
> The meta-assumption that you are making in your argument is that there exists a general will in both western society and Chinese society -- which is equivalent to saying that there is a higher intelligent wisdom above all the western people or all the eastern people, represents their collective will and thus having a single voice that "they want democracy" or "they want totalitarian"
Totalitarian/Totalitarianism is not preferred even by the CCP, you have the Chinese Premier criticising those over regulated craps on weekly basis. To give you a quick example, the Chinese Premier spoke highly of the reform to allow business registration to be done though WeChat. I am 100% sure that you guys can not do business registration using Facebook/Twitter style social media or any other private media.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-07/11/c_136435928.htm http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-07/11/c_136435928.htm
> how many people starved to death during the Great Famine between 1959 to 1961
You do realize that the recent administrations are the exact victims of those failed polices back in the 50s/60s? You do realize that the current Chinese President had his father put into jail because of those policies? Do you even know that the Chinese President himself was sent to the most rural area to work as a farmer/labour for 7 years because of those policies?
Suddenly, the victims need to be responsible for the horrible past.
> And from my own experience, many young people born after 1990 in China even do not know that TianAnMen square protest and the shooting even have ever happened...
It was highly regrettable to have those deaths, one day, the CCP will have to come clean not just to the public but to the book of history. The same can be said to the one-child policy as well. That being said, the timing should never be set/influenced by the CCP or any foreign power, it should be purely decided by Chinese. To answer your question, when most people don't even talk about the Tiananmen square incident, that is because they believe the overall progress made after the Tiananmen Square is good, CCP's explanations at that time (to ensure society stability) is acceptable.
> And what about the dramatic increase in the number of people that have been diagnosed with lung cancer or other types of life-threatening illness as a result of the air pollution caused by profit-driven manufacturing planning?
This is as silly as arguing that thousands of people got killed by flying Boeing-747 and thus it was a bad idea to develop 747.
You are free to check any respectful source you like, you can buy yourself a ticket to China and watch yourself, you'd be seeing one thing pretty consistent - Chinese are living much longer nowadays, life expectancy in the eastern coast has reached almost 80 - my home city Shanghai is already doing better than the US national average. How that was made possible? profit-driven manufacturing.
> It seems to me that you are fairly funny, and rude, to speak for 1.4 billion individuals, without a validated assumption on the very existence of "general will", without any action or even intention to obtain their opinion, while enjoying all the freedom of speech and convenience of western life, and make a speech that all the 1.4 billion individuals have a consensus based on their compromise -- but more to the fact, a self-narcissus based on other people's extraordinary sacrifice...
so just follow your system because it works so well in Arab Spring countries lately? What a joke.
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- 68c12c16 9y ago> You do realize that the recent administrations are the exact victims of those failed > polices back in the 50s/60s? You do realize that the current Chinese President > had his father put into jail because of those policies? Do you even know that the > Chinese President himself was sent to the most rural area to work as a > farmer/labour for 7 years because of those policies? > Suddenly, the victims need to be responsible for the horrible past. I used that example only as a counter example to the statement made in your previous post, that "Chinese living in China" can "figure out what is truth and what is propaganda, and "Chinese as a population of 1.4B" cannot "be easily manipulated." Not to divert too far, I am just saying that, the propaganda and the censorship in the country made it is almost impossible to find out the truth, in many cases such as those ones that I listed in my previous posts. There is a saying that "in today's China, the history is unknown but the future is always sure..." Back to your question in your current post: yes, I know that Xi Jinping was persecuted during the Cultural Revolution...So was Bo Xilai, but that doesn't change Bo's apparent fondness about the Cultural Revolution style... And, please don't mix up the Great Famine with the Cultural Revolution -- they were almost 8 or 9 years apart...and neither Xi Jinping nor Bo Xilai was much affected during the Great Famine... > This is as silly as arguing that thousands of people > got killed by flying Boeing-747 and thus it was a bad > idea to develop 747. Sometimes inappropriate analogies could misguide people's reasoning...to justify your analogy, you need to also do a cost/benefit comparison and see if the two cases are at a similar ratio or scale... And just try to live next to one of those factories in some seriously polluted areas in China for several weeks , perhaps you could have some empathy for the local people who have been living there for their entire life... And how much compensation will they ever get? Well, again, my original point of using this example was only to address your statement that people in China know the truth well...If that is the case, I don't think people these days, including you and me, would have too much contention about what the truth really was... In the future, let us try not to divert from topic to topic -- then this discussion would become arguing for the purpose of arguing, instead of for the purpose of getting closer to the truth... > so just follow your system because it works so well in > Arab Spring countries lately? What a joke. If you look at a broader historical picture, then do you happen to know that there was a Spring of Nations around 1848 in Europe? Just look that up...A little more knowledge about the truth won't do you harm -- and, the Spring of Nations is not a joke, it is a historic fact... ============================== If you have more counter-arguments, please list them below...I will try to come back to address them later when I find some more time...thanks...