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Tesla Powerpack to Enable Large Scale Sustainable Energy to South Australia

21 points by darwhy 9y ago

mnw21cam 9y ago
Remind me why they're using Li-ion batteries, which have a primary advantage of being light, when they could use cheaper, heavier, and less flammable alternatives?
- awjr 9y ago
  As with anything I suspect that this is to do with economies of scale. Delivering a 100MW battery installation in under 6 months is challenging. Being able to achieve this using their current manufacturing base is impressive. That's not to say Li-ion batteries are ideal, but right now, at this moment in time, this is probably the only way of achieving a solution in under 6 months. I believe the newer Glass batteries [1] will be the long term solution for this type of installation, but they are some years off, and South Australia has a problem that needs solving this year. [1] http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/does-new-glass-battery-accelerate-the-end-of-oil http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/does-n...
  - mtgx 9y ago
    And with Li-Ion battery capacity predicted to increase about 10x by 2025, as everyone and their dog starts building a battery factory to serve the EV market, prices for Li-Ion batteries should drop several fold by then. So it makes sense to start adopting Li-Ion batteries into your utility infrastructure.
- breser 9y ago
  Probably because Li-ion batteries don't have much of a memory effect and don't discharge on their own much. I don't think there is such a thing as a less flammable alternative, ultimately you're storing a lot of energy. Energy means potential for fire. Finally, I doubt these have the same chemistry as what they're putting in cars. There are a lot of Li-ion chemistries that are suited to different applications. It's more of a class of chemistries than a single specific one. Some Li-ion chemistries are cheaper and heavier than others but have longer lifetimes.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
sschueller 9y ago
"completion by December 2017". Is Tesla able to produce this many batteries in such a short time when they are also currently trying to ramp up production of their cars?
- pwagland 9y ago
  The short answer to this is that if they don't, they have to give it away for free[1]. Plus this has received so much press that this will be made to work… [1] : http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-07/elon-musk-is-the-100-days-or-its-free-idea-legit/8687996 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-07/elon-musk-is-the-100-d...
- greglindahl 9y ago
  It's true that this project will use the same, larger cells as Model 3, but I suspect that scaling battery production on a slightly larger design is easier than scaling a new assembly line with a new car design.
merricksb 9y ago
Date: July 6, 2017 This is the announcement from last week that was heavily discussed at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14715679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14715679 (153 points/76 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14723853 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14723853 (206 points/166 comments)

21 points by darwhy 9y ago

Remind me why they're using Li-ion batteries, which have a primary advantage of being light, when they could use cheaper, heavier, and less flammable alternatives?

awjr 9y ago
As with anything I suspect that this is to do with economies of scale. Delivering a 100MW battery installation in under 6 months is challenging. Being able to achieve this using their current manufacturing base is impressive. That's not to say Li-ion batteries are ideal, but right now, at this moment in time, this is probably the only way of achieving a solution in under 6 months. I believe the newer Glass batteries [1] will be the long term solution for this type of installation, but they are some years off, and South Australia has a problem that needs solving this year. [1] http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/does-new-glass-battery-accelerate-the-end-of-oil http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/does-n...
- mtgx 9y ago
  And with Li-Ion battery capacity predicted to increase about 10x by 2025, as everyone and their dog starts building a battery factory to serve the EV market, prices for Li-Ion batteries should drop several fold by then. So it makes sense to start adopting Li-Ion batteries into your utility infrastructure.
breser 9y ago
Probably because Li-ion batteries don't have much of a memory effect and don't discharge on their own much. I don't think there is such a thing as a less flammable alternative, ultimately you're storing a lot of energy. Energy means potential for fire. Finally, I doubt these have the same chemistry as what they're putting in cars. There are a lot of Li-ion chemistries that are suited to different applications. It's more of a class of chemistries than a single specific one. Some Li-ion chemistries are cheaper and heavier than others but have longer lifetimes.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

sschueller 9y ago

"completion by December 2017". Is Tesla able to produce this many batteries in such a short time when they are also currently trying to ramp up production of their cars?

pwagland 9y ago
The short answer to this is that if they don't, they have to give it away for free[1]. Plus this has received so much press that this will be made to work… [1] : http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-07/elon-musk-is-the-100-days-or-its-free-idea-legit/8687996 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-07/elon-musk-is-the-100-d...
greglindahl 9y ago
It's true that this project will use the same, larger cells as Model 3, but I suspect that scaling battery production on a slightly larger design is easier than scaling a new assembly line with a new car design.

merricksb 9y ago

Date: July 6, 2017 This is the announcement from last week that was heavily discussed at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14715679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14715679 (153 points/76 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14723853 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14723853 (206 points/166 comments)