4 ms·

Throwaway because no one wants to hear about periods. I am a woman and one time my body decided to have an extremely heavy and painful flow for about a week str

Throwaway because no one wants to hear about periods. I am a woman and one time my body decided to have an extremely heavy and painful flow for about a week straight. I had been sick with a cold immediately before that, so I had already let my employer know that I was not feeling well and would be taking some days off, and I did not feel the need to tell my employer every little detail about what was going on. Every morning I would text something along the lines of, "I'm still not feeling well." After about the third day of being out my boss texted me with a suggestion that I go see a doctor. When I finally got back to the office he wanted to see a doctor's note. I did not go to the doctor, because more extreme bleeding is something that is expected after having an IUD inserted. I was at home in extreme pain, changing out adult diapers about 3 times a day that were completely soaked with blood. I think this 100% is a good enough reason to not come into work, and it's sort of bull that my boss was asking about my personal business when we are already a company that combines sick days with vacation days as PTO. I actually did fill my boss in on all the gory details since he wouldn't let up on the doctor's note, but this is absolutely something that I should NEVER have to disclose to someone to be able to keep my job. I don't really have a good solution here. I want the 12 extra holiday days for everyone solution to work, but there will always be people abusing their limited amount of power to unnecessarily investigate what we are using our PTO for.

pc86 9y ago
It's perfectly reasonable for a manager to request a doctor's note if you say "I have a cold and will not be in for a few days" and then you are out for 6+.
- athenot 9y ago
  Yet it's counter-productive. According to [1], people are contagious for about one week, starting from one day before they feel any symptoms. It is actually more productive to send the sick people home (or let them work at least part-time from home) to prevent others from getting sick and also having to take time off. I've been fortunate enough to work in environments where this was acknowledged and practiced, but I'm always dismayed when hearing from friends/relatives who are required to put in their "time of presence" and get half of their coworkers sick. [Edit] Last point: for the common cold (virus), there's no need for a doctor visit, yet you still need rest and symptom control with OTC meds. [1] http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/how-long-flu-contagious http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/how-long-flu-contagious
  - pc86 9y ago
    I'm not saying people should work when they're sick. I've sent folks on my team home against their will because they were obviously coming down with something. And the flu is very different from a cold. I'm just saying that when there is an extended absence from work, it's reasonable that your employer request a note. Now maybe 6 or 7 work days doesn't meet the definition of extended for some people, but for me it does. And as stated elsewhere, this is not about a nosy manager getting their employee's health information. This is about a manager exercising their right to know that the employee is not at work for a legitimate reason. I've had these types of notes before, and they typically just have a date range of when you should not be in the office.
- dontflamemebro 9y ago
  I did not specify that I had a cold to my employer. The entire time I said I did not feel well but did not provide details.
croon 9y ago
If your vacation days and sick days are combined into a limited pool which you can use up I completely agree with you, but I think that concept is the real problem. In Sweden for example, vacation days and sick days are separate, and up to a week, the employer is required to pay you during sick leave, and after that social security (equivalent) kicks in. This obviously doesn't use up your vacation days (where employers have no business in knowing what you're up to), but as for sick days it's not unreasonable to (have the option to) ask for validation for your absence. I agree that employers (should) have no authority to know anything that's between you and your doctor, but I think it's also reasonable to have some verification (a note from doctor not specifying what the ailment is?) that you weren't just taking time off on the employers dime.
- dontflamemebro 9y ago
  Having a period does not require a visit to the doctor. Should I have brought in the bloody adult diapers as documentation? Ideally I would have used "vacation days" for this if they were separate at my workplace, but they often require requesting the time off ahead of time, which is not really possible when you have an unexpected period from hell and you have no idea how long it will last.
  - croon 9y ago
    > Having a period does not require a visit to the doctor. Should I have brought in the bloody adult diapers as documentation? I know, neither does being out cold with the flu for a week, but the person footing the bill is still reasonably entitled to some form of verification (regardless if this is the right approach in terms of good will or not) that you were unable to work (at least on location). Don't you agree? I don't think your doctor would need verification for that note, diapers or otherwise. I assume it could be handled by phone.
- ygra 9y ago
  In Germany at least you get three instances of a sick note: - One for your health insurance, which lists the diagnosis, duration, etc. - One for your employer which only gives the days you are unable to work - One for yourself with all the info as well This neatly solves the problem that you have to tell your employer anything that only concerns your doctor (they're not allowed to ask either). And my work contract states that I can take leave for any personal reason if needed for up to two days, but after that a doctor's note is required. So in the instance of a period from hell that would make me unable to work, yes, a visit to the doctor is needed, if only for bureaucratic reasons.
quirkot 9y ago
Your employer is not entitled to your health information, but they are entitled to proof that something legit is happening. A doctor's note would say something like "dontflamemebro will require medical leave for 4-8 days. Love, Doc Brown"
- dontflamemebro 9y ago
  I was in so much pain that I could not move. Over the counter pain medicine did not touch it. Getting out of the house to go to an unnecessary doctor's visit was out of the question.
  - pc86 9y ago
    Obviously too little too late but a phone call to the OB would have had the note prepared for you, possibly even sent to your employer after the fact. My wife received one when she had her IUD removed that was for the day of the procedure and 1-3 days after (obviously they could have extended the dates if she was in a great deal of pain).
    - dontflamemebro 9y ago
      Here's a couple more details that were omitted from the story. My boss at the time was an extreme evangelical christian and my OB is Planned Parenthood. I am an atheist and I was not open about that at work because I was afraid that telling the truth would hurt my chances of promotion. Bringing in a note from Planned Parenthood to my extremely traditional boss would not have gone over well. Even though Planned Parenthood offers so many more services, a lot of people only see it as an abortion clinic.

pc86 9y ago

It's perfectly reasonable for a manager to request a doctor's note if you say "I have a cold and will not be in for a few days" and then you are out for 6+.

athenot 9y ago
Yet it's counter-productive. According to [1], people are contagious for about one week, starting from one day before they feel any symptoms. It is actually more productive to send the sick people home (or let them work at least part-time from home) to prevent others from getting sick and also having to take time off. I've been fortunate enough to work in environments where this was acknowledged and practiced, but I'm always dismayed when hearing from friends/relatives who are required to put in their "time of presence" and get half of their coworkers sick. [Edit] Last point: for the common cold (virus), there's no need for a doctor visit, yet you still need rest and symptom control with OTC meds. [1] http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/how-long-flu-contagious http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/how-long-flu-contagious
- pc86 9y ago
  I'm not saying people should work when they're sick. I've sent folks on my team home against their will because they were obviously coming down with something. And the flu is very different from a cold. I'm just saying that when there is an extended absence from work, it's reasonable that your employer request a note. Now maybe 6 or 7 work days doesn't meet the definition of extended for some people, but for me it does. And as stated elsewhere, this is not about a nosy manager getting their employee's health information. This is about a manager exercising their right to know that the employee is not at work for a legitimate reason. I've had these types of notes before, and they typically just have a date range of when you should not be in the office.
dontflamemebro 9y ago
I did not specify that I had a cold to my employer. The entire time I said I did not feel well but did not provide details.

croon 9y ago

If your vacation days and sick days are combined into a limited pool which you can use up I completely agree with you, but I think that concept is the real problem. In Sweden for example, vacation days and sick days are separate, and up to a week, the employer is required to pay you during sick leave, and after that social security (equivalent) kicks in. This obviously doesn't use up your vacation days (where employers have no business in knowing what you're up to), but as for sick days it's not unreasonable to (have the option to) ask for validation for your absence. I agree that employers (should) have no authority to know anything that's between you and your doctor, but I think it's also reasonable to have some verification (a note from doctor not specifying what the ailment is?) that you weren't just taking time off on the employers dime.

dontflamemebro 9y ago
Having a period does not require a visit to the doctor. Should I have brought in the bloody adult diapers as documentation? Ideally I would have used "vacation days" for this if they were separate at my workplace, but they often require requesting the time off ahead of time, which is not really possible when you have an unexpected period from hell and you have no idea how long it will last.
- croon 9y ago
  > Having a period does not require a visit to the doctor. Should I have brought in the bloody adult diapers as documentation? I know, neither does being out cold with the flu for a week, but the person footing the bill is still reasonably entitled to some form of verification (regardless if this is the right approach in terms of good will or not) that you were unable to work (at least on location). Don't you agree? I don't think your doctor would need verification for that note, diapers or otherwise. I assume it could be handled by phone.
ygra 9y ago
In Germany at least you get three instances of a sick note: - One for your health insurance, which lists the diagnosis, duration, etc. - One for your employer which only gives the days you are unable to work - One for yourself with all the info as well This neatly solves the problem that you have to tell your employer anything that only concerns your doctor (they're not allowed to ask either). And my work contract states that I can take leave for any personal reason if needed for up to two days, but after that a doctor's note is required. So in the instance of a period from hell that would make me unable to work, yes, a visit to the doctor is needed, if only for bureaucratic reasons.

quirkot 9y ago

Your employer is not entitled to your health information, but they are entitled to proof that something legit is happening. A doctor's note would say something like "dontflamemebro will require medical leave for 4-8 days. Love, Doc Brown"

dontflamemebro 9y ago
I was in so much pain that I could not move. Over the counter pain medicine did not touch it. Getting out of the house to go to an unnecessary doctor's visit was out of the question.
- pc86 9y ago
  Obviously too little too late but a phone call to the OB would have had the note prepared for you, possibly even sent to your employer after the fact. My wife received one when she had her IUD removed that was for the day of the procedure and 1-3 days after (obviously they could have extended the dates if she was in a great deal of pain).
  - dontflamemebro 9y ago
    Here's a couple more details that were omitted from the story. My boss at the time was an extreme evangelical christian and my OB is Planned Parenthood. I am an atheist and I was not open about that at work because I was afraid that telling the truth would hurt my chances of promotion. Bringing in a note from Planned Parenthood to my extremely traditional boss would not have gone over well. Even though Planned Parenthood offers so many more services, a lot of people only see it as an abortion clinic.