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The Times describes some founders who put up with unwanted sexual advances because they were desperate to raise money for their startups. There’s an old-fash

by tashi 9y ago

The Times describes some founders who put up with unwanted sexual advances because they were desperate to raise money for their startups. There’s an old-fashioned word for what these ladies are doing that I shan’t repeat here. So, women who reject these advances but don't want to object too loudly out of fear of burning bridges or being seen as a troublemaker, are being accused of prostitution. What a fascinating way to smear the victims.

abraae 9y ago
Its a despicable situation for sure, but leaving emotion aside, the assertion that the victims are putting up with sexual advances in order to get money appears to be factually correct (in this one case - i.e. seeking investment - not in the case of just trying to do your job). Is it so easy to say that's totally different from prostitution? Of course that leads to the observation that many prostitutes probably feel trapped, and would prefer to have legitimate ways to get the money they need/want.
- xenadu02 9y ago
  > Is it so easy to say that's totally different from prostitution? Indeed it is totally different. I don't understand how a reasonable person could honestly think this. I am not trying to be a jerk, it just seems disingenuous or incredibly ignorant. Are you sure you want your name attached to such a comment? Let's spell this our pedantically: The women we are discussing here were propositioned but turned the offer down. That is the exact opposite of prostitution. If anything being propositioned is a really good sign that you absolutely don't want to be in business with that person in any capacity. They very sensibly didn't tell anyone publicly, file any lawsuits, or press any charges because they didn't want to get blacklisted from the industry. It's the same reason you usually don't sue a landlord or former employer: People google your name, see the lawsuit, then drop your rental application / resume in the recycle bin. You can "win" the case only to end up losing big in the end. Even having a manufactured / fake controversy swirling around you can be damaging. In fact this is the very root of the problem: some men feel entitled to treat women they come across as prostitutes whenever they feel like it. As if being a GP entitles them to offer introductions, favors, or money for sex. (And to be extra pedantic: it is just a shitty if the GP is a woman hitting on a male founder. I can't imagine having someone dangle funding over my head to cheat on my spouse. It definitely tells you about their character though: they will continue to manipulate you to suit their fancy and toss you when they no longer have any need for you.)
  - abraae 9y ago
    My apologies, I hadn't thought through my comment, and did not until I read your response. My thoughts were completely out of line and I was wrong.
- ncallaway 9y ago
  > Is it so easy to say that's totally different from prostitution? Yes. It is totally different, and it's very easy to say so. I'm shocked anyone would need to actually ask this question given the overall context of the situation.
- watwut 9y ago
  Gotcha. I am weak and thin skinned if I do not put up with proposals and prostitute if I ignore them.
sauronlord 9y ago
An "alleged victim", fixed that for you. No one has produce a single text message backing up their claims. Not one fucking text message. Let alone a conversation thread. A lot of people play the victim card too quickly. I'm a man and just got hit on by: - 1 transgendered male at the supermarket (it was awkward) - 2 obese women ("Hey baby, nice ass!") - Groped by a women as I passed her by at a concert. All in the past week. Do I go stand on top of a mountain and go to newspapers that I had unwanted sexual advances and how awful these people are? No, because it's human nature to want to attract a mate and people will try. And I respect that and value their attention to me however simpleton, grotesque or somewhat awkward it can be.
zaptheimpaler 9y ago
The problem is many people keep objecting in general but without ever providing ANY evidence or at least asserting clearly "this person X did Y". Taking generalized accusations at simple word of mouth is lynching, its not a scalable solution for society. There will always be people who lie or bend the truth when its to their advantage, unfortunately thats the world we live in - thats why we require evidence and a judicial process in crimes. I know it must be very difficult, but basically powerful people get away with all kinds of things including but not limited to sexual harassment because of the same fears women have against reporting them - burning bridges, fear of repercussions, they might have strong reputations and powerful friends etc etc. For most of us, the only choice is to leave that environment because of that fear. Harassment, unfortunately it can be a bigger offense, but women face the same choices as anyone else - leave or risk a fight with a powerful person... It sucks but it sucks the same way for everyone. She ultimately makes a good point - "The only thing more timeless than the abuse of power is the tolerance of abuse by those who most need the money.". Many people want the funding bad enough to keep interacting with unpleasant people and tolerate the abuse and hence ensure it continues.... they do have at least the choice to walk away, same as men, or better yet bring it to public awareness. Yet many choose to take the money and then complain - at that point they have no right to complain, because they have actively perpetuated the cycle of abuse in exchange for money and helped the abuser grow a little more powerful. You can't take the bad guys money, knowing full well what it cost you AND complain about it.

by tashi 9y ago

abraae 9y ago

Its a despicable situation for sure, but leaving emotion aside, the assertion that the victims are putting up with sexual advances in order to get money appears to be factually correct (in this one case - i.e. seeking investment - not in the case of just trying to do your job). Is it so easy to say that's totally different from prostitution? Of course that leads to the observation that many prostitutes probably feel trapped, and would prefer to have legitimate ways to get the money they need/want.

xenadu02 9y ago
> Is it so easy to say that's totally different from prostitution? Indeed it is totally different. I don't understand how a reasonable person could honestly think this. I am not trying to be a jerk, it just seems disingenuous or incredibly ignorant. Are you sure you want your name attached to such a comment? Let's spell this our pedantically: The women we are discussing here were propositioned but turned the offer down. That is the exact opposite of prostitution. If anything being propositioned is a really good sign that you absolutely don't want to be in business with that person in any capacity. They very sensibly didn't tell anyone publicly, file any lawsuits, or press any charges because they didn't want to get blacklisted from the industry. It's the same reason you usually don't sue a landlord or former employer: People google your name, see the lawsuit, then drop your rental application / resume in the recycle bin. You can "win" the case only to end up losing big in the end. Even having a manufactured / fake controversy swirling around you can be damaging. In fact this is the very root of the problem: some men feel entitled to treat women they come across as prostitutes whenever they feel like it. As if being a GP entitles them to offer introductions, favors, or money for sex. (And to be extra pedantic: it is just a shitty if the GP is a woman hitting on a male founder. I can't imagine having someone dangle funding over my head to cheat on my spouse. It definitely tells you about their character though: they will continue to manipulate you to suit their fancy and toss you when they no longer have any need for you.)
- abraae 9y ago
  My apologies, I hadn't thought through my comment, and did not until I read your response. My thoughts were completely out of line and I was wrong.
ncallaway 9y ago
> Is it so easy to say that's totally different from prostitution? Yes. It is totally different, and it's very easy to say so. I'm shocked anyone would need to actually ask this question given the overall context of the situation.
watwut 9y ago
Gotcha. I am weak and thin skinned if I do not put up with proposals and prostitute if I ignore them.

sauronlord 9y ago

An "alleged victim", fixed that for you. No one has produce a single text message backing up their claims. Not one fucking text message. Let alone a conversation thread. A lot of people play the victim card too quickly. I'm a man and just got hit on by: - 1 transgendered male at the supermarket (it was awkward) - 2 obese women ("Hey baby, nice ass!") - Groped by a women as I passed her by at a concert. All in the past week. Do I go stand on top of a mountain and go to newspapers that I had unwanted sexual advances and how awful these people are? No, because it's human nature to want to attract a mate and people will try. And I respect that and value their attention to me however simpleton, grotesque or somewhat awkward it can be.

zaptheimpaler 9y ago

The problem is many people keep objecting in general but without ever providing ANY evidence or at least asserting clearly "this person X did Y". Taking generalized accusations at simple word of mouth is lynching, its not a scalable solution for society. There will always be people who lie or bend the truth when its to their advantage, unfortunately thats the world we live in - thats why we require evidence and a judicial process in crimes. I know it must be very difficult, but basically powerful people get away with all kinds of things including but not limited to sexual harassment because of the same fears women have against reporting them - burning bridges, fear of repercussions, they might have strong reputations and powerful friends etc etc. For most of us, the only choice is to leave that environment because of that fear. Harassment, unfortunately it can be a bigger offense, but women face the same choices as anyone else - leave or risk a fight with a powerful person... It sucks but it sucks the same way for everyone. She ultimately makes a good point - "The only thing more timeless than the abuse of power is the tolerance of abuse by those who most need the money.". Many people want the funding bad enough to keep interacting with unpleasant people and tolerate the abuse and hence ensure it continues.... they do have at least the choice to walk away, same as men, or better yet bring it to public awareness. Yet many choose to take the money and then complain - at that point they have no right to complain, because they have actively perpetuated the cycle of abuse in exchange for money and helped the abuser grow a little more powerful. You can't take the bad guys money, knowing full well what it cost you AND complain about it.