6 ms·

CA has an income tax that's 8% or higher above $40k. If this caused some kind of brain drain, I'd expect to see smart/wealthy people leaving the state. The last

CA has an income tax that's 8% or higher above $40k. If this caused some kind of brain drain, I'd expect to see smart/wealthy people leaving the state. The last 30 years have been the opposite, with the Bay Area and SV growing in size and importance year over year. Further, when discussion of people leaving the state comes up, I hear constantly about cost of living and housing, never about taxes.

jblow 9y ago
I moved out of California because of taxes. Top tax bracket is now 13.3%.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  And yet Silicon Valley/SF is still bursting at the seams.
  - lj3 9y ago
    > In fact, in some parts of the Bay Area — including Santa Clara, San Mateo and Marin counties — already more people are leaving than arriving, according to the estimates released Thursday, which cover the period from July 1, 2015, to June 30, 2016. The same would be true in San Francisco if it weren’t for the high number moving in from abroad. source: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-population-growth-slows-some-counties-11021334.php http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-population-gr...
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Have land values decreased? And I don't mean commercial lease rates, I'm talking actual residential real estate. If not, people still want to live there.
  - randyrand 9y ago
    For now.
influx 9y ago
Quite a few people leaving California to lower tax states like Texas: http://freebeacon.com/issues/number-californians-moving-texas-hits-highest-level-nearly-decade/ http://freebeacon.com/issues/number-californians-moving-texa...
netheril96 9y ago
But tax is part of cost of living.
- unstatusthequo 9y ago
  Only if you subject yourself to the jurisdiction in question. You're free to move out to avoid oppressive tax. I hope many do.
  - fred_is_fred 9y ago
    2.4% sure sounds oppressive.
    - jstanley 9y ago
      If 2.4% of your income isn't oppressive, why not send me 2.4% of your income? I promise I'll try and spend it on things that will benefit some people.
      - fred_is_fred 9y ago
        I don't mind paying my taxes. Why? because I like parks and roads and schools and safety nets. Is there some waste? yes. But if you don't want to pay any taxes, move to Somalia, I'm sure it will be paradise.
home_boi 9y ago
But Seattle is not the Bay Area. Professionally, it simply doesn't have as many opportunities as the Bay Area. The weather is much worse, it has a similar homeless problem to SF, less culture (somewhat subjective), worse schools compared to South Bay, etc. I think the no income taxes has been a huge draw for stingy engineers who want to save $20k+/yr. If the income tax, however tiny, actually goes through, people will see this as the beginning of many income tax increases and will be less likely to settle down in the area.
nugget 9y ago
Every state's tax code is a story of winners and losers; a historical record often heavily influenced by special interests and circumstances unique to that state. California's tax code has been designed by wealthy real estate developers who pay relatively little in income tax due to depreciation. Proposition 13 has been an incredible transfer of wealth from wage earners to the real estate industry. This is rentier capitalism and does little to promote Silicon Valley's brand of innovation, unless you view high housing costs as a useful mechanism to filter potential migrants. If California had opted for higher property taxes and lower income taxes, then I suspect it would be even more vibrant and dynamic than the admittedly successful State we see today. Other states, notably Texas, have taken such an approach: very high property taxes and no income taxes.
tristanj 9y ago
California also has an income tax of 1% for individuals earning one million dollars or more. It's called the California Mental Health Services Act. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Mental_Health_Services_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Mental_Health_Servi...
randyrand 9y ago
Bad argument IMO. You don't know how much more of a tech center CA would be without their high income tax. We only have 1 data point, and we need 2. I know I personally avoid California because of the high taxes, and I doubt I'm alone.

jblow 9y ago

I moved out of California because of taxes. Top tax bracket is now 13.3%.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
And yet Silicon Valley/SF is still bursting at the seams.
- lj3 9y ago
  > In fact, in some parts of the Bay Area — including Santa Clara, San Mateo and Marin counties — already more people are leaving than arriving, according to the estimates released Thursday, which cover the period from July 1, 2015, to June 30, 2016. The same would be true in San Francisco if it weren’t for the high number moving in from abroad. source: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-population-growth-slows-some-counties-11021334.php http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-population-gr...
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Have land values decreased? And I don't mean commercial lease rates, I'm talking actual residential real estate. If not, people still want to live there.
- randyrand 9y ago
  For now.

influx 9y ago

Quite a few people leaving California to lower tax states like Texas: http://freebeacon.com/issues/number-californians-moving-texas-hits-highest-level-nearly-decade/ http://freebeacon.com/issues/number-californians-moving-texa...

netheril96 9y ago

But tax is part of cost of living.

unstatusthequo 9y ago
Only if you subject yourself to the jurisdiction in question. You're free to move out to avoid oppressive tax. I hope many do.
- fred_is_fred 9y ago
  2.4% sure sounds oppressive.
  - jstanley 9y ago
    If 2.4% of your income isn't oppressive, why not send me 2.4% of your income? I promise I'll try and spend it on things that will benefit some people.
    - fred_is_fred 9y ago
      I don't mind paying my taxes. Why? because I like parks and roads and schools and safety nets. Is there some waste? yes. But if you don't want to pay any taxes, move to Somalia, I'm sure it will be paradise.

home_boi 9y ago

But Seattle is not the Bay Area. Professionally, it simply doesn't have as many opportunities as the Bay Area. The weather is much worse, it has a similar homeless problem to SF, less culture (somewhat subjective), worse schools compared to South Bay, etc. I think the no income taxes has been a huge draw for stingy engineers who want to save $20k+/yr. If the income tax, however tiny, actually goes through, people will see this as the beginning of many income tax increases and will be less likely to settle down in the area.

nugget 9y ago

Every state's tax code is a story of winners and losers; a historical record often heavily influenced by special interests and circumstances unique to that state. California's tax code has been designed by wealthy real estate developers who pay relatively little in income tax due to depreciation. Proposition 13 has been an incredible transfer of wealth from wage earners to the real estate industry. This is rentier capitalism and does little to promote Silicon Valley's brand of innovation, unless you view high housing costs as a useful mechanism to filter potential migrants. If California had opted for higher property taxes and lower income taxes, then I suspect it would be even more vibrant and dynamic than the admittedly successful State we see today. Other states, notably Texas, have taken such an approach: very high property taxes and no income taxes.

tristanj 9y ago

California also has an income tax of 1% for individuals earning one million dollars or more. It's called the California Mental Health Services Act. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Mental_Health_Services_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Mental_Health_Servi...

randyrand 9y ago

Bad argument IMO. You don't know how much more of a tech center CA would be without their high income tax. We only have 1 data point, and we need 2. I know I personally avoid California because of the high taxes, and I doubt I'm alone.