4 ms·

Wearing deodorant themselves makes people drastically more sensitive to others' body odor. And I can smell the deodorant, the detergent on their clothes and ot

by Mz 9y ago

Wearing deodorant themselves makes people drastically more sensitive to others' body odor. And I can smell the deodorant, the detergent on their clothes and other scents that people with more conventional lives are either unaware of or do not object to. I find these smells objectionable. Meanwhile, rabbits and birds are unbothered by hanging near me. Animals operate on a basis of smell and they apparently find these chemical smells of "normal" people objectionable and I don't smell like that. I am sleeping in a tent for health reasons. All those chemicals make me ill. I hope to return to a more conventional housing situation soon, but I will continue to avoid a lot of chemicals that other people routinely use and don't view as problematic. Everyone smells. You might find my smell offensive. I would likely find yours offensive as well. Your assertion that you are sure that I smell having never stood next to me just makes your classist assumptions really clear to me, though I am sure you will deny it. When these kinds of rules are made, they basically boil down to "You need to come across as middle class or upper class and this is a code for being allowed to toss anyone we feel doesn't fit, if we so desire." It was an aggressively enforced rule in one library where the head librarian was basically a lying psycho bitch. We once got told "We are getting complaints" not 30 seconds after we sat down. Another library in the same system did not enforce this rule and they were nothing but nice to us. The enforcement of the rule was basically a Jim Crow type practice applied to the poor. The only plausible explanation for the stylist's vacation-plans conversation is that he or she was doing their best to treat you respectfully, tolerating the odor. Or, alternately, that I didn't particularly smell.

linkregister 9y ago
Again, I'm not advocating for one scheme or another. I'm telling you what the current reality is in the United States. Other countries have different norms for this. Other things done in the U.S., such as wearing shorts, are considered deeply offensive in other countries. When in those countries, I don't wear shorts. Using non-human animals as a benchmark is not going to help you in any way. The scope of this discussion is humans in the United States. You are permitted to disagree, but this doesn't change reality. The arbitrary nature of your treatment is due to the tolerance of the "nice" library. The "psycho bitch" (way to promote tolerance, dude!) head librarian was also thinking of her own welfare and ability to concentrate on her duties. Please also recognize that most of the poor in the United States do have access to soap and water. I dispute that anyone making the median household income is middle-class or upper class. I feel for you and your circumstances. You do appear to care about how other people's behavior affects you. You appear to have less regard about how your choices and behavior affects other people. Then again, this is completely understandable and justifiable considering how comfortable their lives are in comparison to yours. It doesn't make it correct.
- Mz 9y ago
  I actually knew the woman. She actually was a psycho bitch. Her own staff hated her, not just some of the library patrons. You are in no way taking anything I am saying at all seriously. You seem blind to your own biases and they are incredibly offensive. The person cutting my hair merely being polite and tolerating my smell is NOT "the only plausible explanation." I have had people tell me to my face they thought I was a tourist. I am not misreading politeness as something else. So, I think I am done talking with you. Your remarks utterly fail to meet any kind of baseline civility and respect for me as a human being. I'm homeless, so you think you know all there is to know about me based on that one detail and don't confuse you with the facts, your mind is made up.
  - linkregister 9y ago
    I think this is an interesting conversation because you make tons of assumptions about me. You reject advice from my perspective because you claim it doesn't contain baseline civility. I haven't attacked your lifestyle or made any judgement about it. I am telling you that from my comfortable perspective, this is how reality is in the United States. I think the only thing "uncivil" about my perspective is that you disagree with it. And that's fine. I think people in unfortunate circumstances have lots of leeway to feel anger and express it. Who knows, maybe you are outside of my office building right now, and I'll be another faceless programmer drone to put a dollar in your cup.
    - Mz 9y ago
      and I'll be another faceless programmer drone to put a dollar in your cup. I don't panhandle. This is yet another case of you making incredibly offensive assumptions about me and feeling zero obligation whatsoever to own it or even vaguely attempt to pretend to be respectful. I do freelance writing, I blog and I do resume editing. That fact is easily determined.
      - raxace 9y ago
        They have not been anything but respectful to your opinions. You've also in this conversation let us other readers know that you're poor and homeless, living in a tent. Can you really blame anyone for making a point- and that's all it is- about panhandling? The crude insult about a librarian you felt you were mistreated by is telling about your view on the value of others. I really can't palate the blatant hypocrisy in your words; you are easily offended by others and at the same time accuse everyone else of being horrible.
mahyarm 9y ago
How difficult is it to get regular showers or ocean/lake rinses as a homeless person in your region?
- Mz 9y ago
  At the moment, I check into a hotel about once a month and shower. I have not used homeless services where I currently am, so I don't know what showers they offer here. Where I am currently, there is an abundance of excellent public park bathrooms and I have no problem doing some basic clean up there, as needed, though it isn't a shower. I am not at the coast, so there is no ocean here. When I was in downtown San Diego, I showered almost every single day at either Neil Good or Rachel's. After I left downtown but was still in San Diego County, I typically went to the beach a few times a week to clean up. So, when I was being told to leave the library in downtown San Diego (for supposedly smelling), I was showering daily. It was bullshit.
  - mahyarm 9y ago
    Did your clothing smell then? You seemed to be implying you had a strong odor in your previous posts.
    - Mz 9y ago
      By the time I realized that I should have put "smelling bad" in quotes, it was too late to edit it. I have a serious health condition. I sometimes do smell, but not specifically because I haven't showered. I actually smelled a lot worse back when I had a corporate job and an apartment because I was a lot sicker. But I had a more conventional lifestyle, so I never got accused of smelling. This is part of why I am so confident that accusations that "you smell" are merely code for "no homeless people." There are plenty of people who smell bad, but that isn't a reason to exclude them from a public space. That accusation does get used to exclude homeless people. I am not saying that homeless people never smell. I am saying that a) everyone has some kind of smell, to some degree b) smells being "offensive" are largely subjective, not objective and c) objecting to "smell" is often not really about the smell but about the fact that the person is homeless. If we routinely threw people out of public spaces for having a strong odor, regardless of other details, then I wouldn't think this was basically a Jim Crow practice. But when "smell" gets used as the reason to exclude a poor person but is never used to exclude other people who may also be equally disgusting, then it really isn't about the smell per se. That's just basically a cover story. Is that clearer?

by Mz 9y ago

linkregister 9y ago

Again, I'm not advocating for one scheme or another. I'm telling you what the current reality is in the United States. Other countries have different norms for this. Other things done in the U.S., such as wearing shorts, are considered deeply offensive in other countries. When in those countries, I don't wear shorts. Using non-human animals as a benchmark is not going to help you in any way. The scope of this discussion is humans in the United States. You are permitted to disagree, but this doesn't change reality. The arbitrary nature of your treatment is due to the tolerance of the "nice" library. The "psycho bitch" (way to promote tolerance, dude!) head librarian was also thinking of her own welfare and ability to concentrate on her duties. Please also recognize that most of the poor in the United States do have access to soap and water. I dispute that anyone making the median household income is middle-class or upper class. I feel for you and your circumstances. You do appear to care about how other people's behavior affects you. You appear to have less regard about how your choices and behavior affects other people. Then again, this is completely understandable and justifiable considering how comfortable their lives are in comparison to yours. It doesn't make it correct.

Mz 9y ago
I actually knew the woman. She actually was a psycho bitch. Her own staff hated her, not just some of the library patrons. You are in no way taking anything I am saying at all seriously. You seem blind to your own biases and they are incredibly offensive. The person cutting my hair merely being polite and tolerating my smell is NOT "the only plausible explanation." I have had people tell me to my face they thought I was a tourist. I am not misreading politeness as something else. So, I think I am done talking with you. Your remarks utterly fail to meet any kind of baseline civility and respect for me as a human being. I'm homeless, so you think you know all there is to know about me based on that one detail and don't confuse you with the facts, your mind is made up.
- linkregister 9y ago
  I think this is an interesting conversation because you make tons of assumptions about me. You reject advice from my perspective because you claim it doesn't contain baseline civility. I haven't attacked your lifestyle or made any judgement about it. I am telling you that from my comfortable perspective, this is how reality is in the United States. I think the only thing "uncivil" about my perspective is that you disagree with it. And that's fine. I think people in unfortunate circumstances have lots of leeway to feel anger and express it. Who knows, maybe you are outside of my office building right now, and I'll be another faceless programmer drone to put a dollar in your cup.
  - Mz 9y ago
    and I'll be another faceless programmer drone to put a dollar in your cup. I don't panhandle. This is yet another case of you making incredibly offensive assumptions about me and feeling zero obligation whatsoever to own it or even vaguely attempt to pretend to be respectful. I do freelance writing, I blog and I do resume editing. That fact is easily determined.
    - raxace 9y ago
      They have not been anything but respectful to your opinions. You've also in this conversation let us other readers know that you're poor and homeless, living in a tent. Can you really blame anyone for making a point- and that's all it is- about panhandling? The crude insult about a librarian you felt you were mistreated by is telling about your view on the value of others. I really can't palate the blatant hypocrisy in your words; you are easily offended by others and at the same time accuse everyone else of being horrible.

mahyarm 9y ago

How difficult is it to get regular showers or ocean/lake rinses as a homeless person in your region?

Mz 9y ago
At the moment, I check into a hotel about once a month and shower. I have not used homeless services where I currently am, so I don't know what showers they offer here. Where I am currently, there is an abundance of excellent public park bathrooms and I have no problem doing some basic clean up there, as needed, though it isn't a shower. I am not at the coast, so there is no ocean here. When I was in downtown San Diego, I showered almost every single day at either Neil Good or Rachel's. After I left downtown but was still in San Diego County, I typically went to the beach a few times a week to clean up. So, when I was being told to leave the library in downtown San Diego (for supposedly smelling), I was showering daily. It was bullshit.
- mahyarm 9y ago
  Did your clothing smell then? You seemed to be implying you had a strong odor in your previous posts.
  - Mz 9y ago
    By the time I realized that I should have put "smelling bad" in quotes, it was too late to edit it. I have a serious health condition. I sometimes do smell, but not specifically because I haven't showered. I actually smelled a lot worse back when I had a corporate job and an apartment because I was a lot sicker. But I had a more conventional lifestyle, so I never got accused of smelling. This is part of why I am so confident that accusations that "you smell" are merely code for "no homeless people." There are plenty of people who smell bad, but that isn't a reason to exclude them from a public space. That accusation does get used to exclude homeless people. I am not saying that homeless people never smell. I am saying that a) everyone has some kind of smell, to some degree b) smells being "offensive" are largely subjective, not objective and c) objecting to "smell" is often not really about the smell but about the fact that the person is homeless. If we routinely threw people out of public spaces for having a strong odor, regardless of other details, then I wouldn't think this was basically a Jim Crow practice. But when "smell" gets used as the reason to exclude a poor person but is never used to exclude other people who may also be equally disgusting, then it really isn't about the smell per se. That's just basically a cover story. Is that clearer?