5 ms·

Interesting you say that. I happen to live 5 blocks from the new central library in San Diego. It's huge and very expensive (nearly $200M). It also has what

Interesting you say that. I happen to live 5 blocks from the new central library in San Diego. It's huge and very expensive (nearly $200M). It also has what appears to be 100 or so public computers that are pretty much used non-stop by the large homeless population which borders the area to the east of downtown. Look at some of the more negative yelp reviews for it: https://www.yelp.com/biz/san-diego-public-library-san-diego-13?osq=library https://www.yelp.com/biz/san-diego-public-library-san-diego-... Ultimately, there really isn't anything that can be done - you can't kick someone out because they look or smell a certain way if they're using a public utility the way it was meant to be used.

austenallred 9y ago
That is interesting. She's in rural Texas, so obviously pretty different, but I didn't know there were libraries like that anywhere.
- brandall10 9y ago
  I don't think think legally there are libraries not like that anywhere. To be removed, someone has to be committing a crime. In most cases with homeless people that aren't actually committing an obvious crime it's loitering (or solicitation if panhandling). In a library if you're actually reading a book or using a computer you're not loitering any more than anyone else there.
  - austenallred 9y ago
    But we require our students to talk a lot. At least in the libraries I've been to there's an expectation of noise level. That said, I haven't been to very many libraries.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    This is a problem with the design of the system. "Using the computer" just so you can be inside in the air conditioning is definitely not how those resources were intended to be used. The problem is that it's impossible to practically police this behavior individually, but easy to detect in aggregate. If the homeless person just sits around in the library doing nothing, they're loitering, but because they're sitting at a computer eating up a resource, it's not loitering. I certainly don't mean to assume a homeless person wouldn't have a legit reason to use the library computers. That's why I noted the difference between policing an individual is impossible, but seeing the trend in aggregate is easy.
vkou 9y ago
Some of those yelp reviews are amazing - I can only assume they are coming from the same group of people that thinks that the homeless should stop being losers and just get a real job.
- jschwartzi 9y ago
  They're all written by the people who complain about pit toilets in national parks.
Mz 9y ago
I used to get kicked out of the San Diego library for smelling bad when I was homeless in San Diego. It was a loose interpretation of some rule about interfering with other people's use of the library. I also know of a library system that literally has a smell rule. It pisses me off because it is basically a Jim Crow law. I have serious allergies and respiratory problems and it can literally make me ill when someone shows up stinking to high heaven of strong perfume. But you can bet the librarians would not have thrown them out had I complained. That "you smell" thing is basically code for "no homeless people." There is no objective smell-o-meter that indicates when someone is actually a threat to public welfare or something. And in settings where people did not know I was homeless, I did not see evidence that I actually smelled bad. They would ask me about my vacation plans while cutting my hair.
chongli 9y ago
Ultimately, there really isn't anything that can be done - you can't kick someone out because they look or smell a certain way if they're using a public utility the way it was meant to be used. There's lots that can be done. How about more computers, for a start? If they're monopolizing 100 computers then how about 1000? Install public showers and laundry facilities, too. Add in a volunteer job training center. Run free programming classes and job interview tutorials. Resumé review classes would be great, too.
- ikeyany 9y ago
  Libraries aren't homeless shelters.
  - chongli 9y ago
    Right. Libraries have the opportunity to help people break the cycle of poverty rather than merely sustain it.

austenallred 9y ago

That is interesting. She's in rural Texas, so obviously pretty different, but I didn't know there were libraries like that anywhere.

brandall10 9y ago
I don't think think legally there are libraries not like that anywhere. To be removed, someone has to be committing a crime. In most cases with homeless people that aren't actually committing an obvious crime it's loitering (or solicitation if panhandling). In a library if you're actually reading a book or using a computer you're not loitering any more than anyone else there.
- austenallred 9y ago
  But we require our students to talk a lot. At least in the libraries I've been to there's an expectation of noise level. That said, I haven't been to very many libraries.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  This is a problem with the design of the system. "Using the computer" just so you can be inside in the air conditioning is definitely not how those resources were intended to be used. The problem is that it's impossible to practically police this behavior individually, but easy to detect in aggregate. If the homeless person just sits around in the library doing nothing, they're loitering, but because they're sitting at a computer eating up a resource, it's not loitering. I certainly don't mean to assume a homeless person wouldn't have a legit reason to use the library computers. That's why I noted the difference between policing an individual is impossible, but seeing the trend in aggregate is easy.

vkou 9y ago

Some of those yelp reviews are amazing - I can only assume they are coming from the same group of people that thinks that the homeless should stop being losers and just get a real job.

jschwartzi 9y ago
They're all written by the people who complain about pit toilets in national parks.

Mz 9y ago

I used to get kicked out of the San Diego library for smelling bad when I was homeless in San Diego. It was a loose interpretation of some rule about interfering with other people's use of the library. I also know of a library system that literally has a smell rule. It pisses me off because it is basically a Jim Crow law. I have serious allergies and respiratory problems and it can literally make me ill when someone shows up stinking to high heaven of strong perfume. But you can bet the librarians would not have thrown them out had I complained. That "you smell" thing is basically code for "no homeless people." There is no objective smell-o-meter that indicates when someone is actually a threat to public welfare or something. And in settings where people did not know I was homeless, I did not see evidence that I actually smelled bad. They would ask me about my vacation plans while cutting my hair.

chongli 9y ago

Ultimately, there really isn't anything that can be done - you can't kick someone out because they look or smell a certain way if they're using a public utility the way it was meant to be used. There's lots that can be done. How about more computers, for a start? If they're monopolizing 100 computers then how about 1000? Install public showers and laundry facilities, too. Add in a volunteer job training center. Run free programming classes and job interview tutorials. Resumé review classes would be great, too.

ikeyany 9y ago
Libraries aren't homeless shelters.
- chongli 9y ago
  Right. Libraries have the opportunity to help people break the cycle of poverty rather than merely sustain it.