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As a member of this demographic I'm seeing a huge reluctance for peers (and a reluctance in myself) to bite the bullet, swallow my pride, and take a minimum wag

As a member of this demographic I'm seeing a huge reluctance for peers (and a reluctance in myself) to bite the bullet, swallow my pride, and take a minimum wage job until I can get better on my feet. I feel like I'm so close to the promised utopia upper class lifestyle of a full-time software engineer that taking extreme measures like the women described in this article seem justified. But why didn't she just go to the public library? An internet cafe? How many hours and how much frustration was endured trying to code on a touchscreen device?

austenallred 9y ago
> But why didn't she just go to the public library? An internet cafe? She isn't close to one. And I don't know of many libraries that are cool with you videoconferencing with instructors and pair programming 8 hrs/day.
- brandall10 9y ago
  Interesting you say that. I happen to live 5 blocks from the new central library in San Diego. It's huge and very expensive (nearly $200M). It also has what appears to be 100 or so public computers that are pretty much used non-stop by the large homeless population which borders the area to the east of downtown. Look at some of the more negative yelp reviews for it: https://www.yelp.com/biz/san-diego-public-library-san-diego-13?osq=library https://www.yelp.com/biz/san-diego-public-library-san-diego-... Ultimately, there really isn't anything that can be done - you can't kick someone out because they look or smell a certain way if they're using a public utility the way it was meant to be used.
  - austenallred 9y ago
    That is interesting. She's in rural Texas, so obviously pretty different, but I didn't know there were libraries like that anywhere.
    - brandall10 9y ago
      I don't think think legally there are libraries not like that anywhere. To be removed, someone has to be committing a crime. In most cases with homeless people that aren't actually committing an obvious crime it's loitering (or solicitation if panhandling). In a library if you're actually reading a book or using a computer you're not loitering any more than anyone else there.
      - austenallred 9y ago
        But we require our students to talk a lot. At least in the libraries I've been to there's an expectation of noise level. That said, I haven't been to very many libraries.
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        This is a problem with the design of the system. "Using the computer" just so you can be inside in the air conditioning is definitely not how those resources were intended to be used. The problem is that it's impossible to practically police this behavior individually, but easy to detect in aggregate. If the homeless person just sits around in the library doing nothing, they're loitering, but because they're sitting at a computer eating up a resource, it's not loitering. I certainly don't mean to assume a homeless person wouldn't have a legit reason to use the library computers. That's why I noted the difference between policing an individual is impossible, but seeing the trend in aggregate is easy.
  - vkou 9y ago
    Some of those yelp reviews are amazing - I can only assume they are coming from the same group of people that thinks that the homeless should stop being losers and just get a real job.
    - jschwartzi 9y ago
      They're all written by the people who complain about pit toilets in national parks.
  - Mz 9y ago
    I used to get kicked out of the San Diego library for smelling bad when I was homeless in San Diego. It was a loose interpretation of some rule about interfering with other people's use of the library. I also know of a library system that literally has a smell rule. It pisses me off because it is basically a Jim Crow law. I have serious allergies and respiratory problems and it can literally make me ill when someone shows up stinking to high heaven of strong perfume. But you can bet the librarians would not have thrown them out had I complained. That "you smell" thing is basically code for "no homeless people." There is no objective smell-o-meter that indicates when someone is actually a threat to public welfare or something. And in settings where people did not know I was homeless, I did not see evidence that I actually smelled bad. They would ask me about my vacation plans while cutting my hair.
  - chongli 9y ago
    Ultimately, there really isn't anything that can be done - you can't kick someone out because they look or smell a certain way if they're using a public utility the way it was meant to be used. There's lots that can be done. How about more computers, for a start? If they're monopolizing 100 computers then how about 1000? Install public showers and laundry facilities, too. Add in a volunteer job training center. Run free programming classes and job interview tutorials. Resumé review classes would be great, too.
    - ikeyany 9y ago
      Libraries aren't homeless shelters.
      - chongli 9y ago
        Right. Libraries have the opportunity to help people break the cycle of poverty rather than merely sustain it.
- Mz 9y ago
  Some libraries are not even open 8 hours a day, every day. In fact, most library systems seem to not be open 7 days a week. Even the ones that are typically have shorter hours at least on some days.
vkou 9y ago
> I'm seeing a huge reluctance for peers (and a reluctance in myself) to bite the bullet, swallow my pride, and take a minimum wage job until I can get better on my feet. How far in the black will a minimum wage job put you month/month? How long will it take to put yourself up on your feet with it?
aphextron 9y ago
>As a member of this demographic I'm seeing a huge reluctance for peers (and a reluctance in myself) to bite the bullet, swallow my pride, and take a minimum wage job until I can get better on my feet Don't do it. Life is all about priorities and keeping your focus. Once you start mixing work and studies, both will suffer. Go hungry, sell plasma, visit a food bank, do what you have to do. But keep your eye on the prize.
- s73ver 9y ago
  Studies will suffer even more if you're unsure of where your next meal is coming from.
- mahyarm 9y ago
  Tons of students do part time min wager jobs and do just fine. You learn stuff from working those jobs alone!
- erroneousfunk 9y ago
  I got my master's in software engineering half time while working full time as a software engineer. During those four years I was also volunteering once a week, had a few side projects going on, wrote a book that made >$50,000 over the last two years, did freelance work, and maintained a relationship (got married two days after I graduated!). There were certainly periods of time where I didn't see friends much, and my husband had to (gasp) cook dinner once in a while, but it was doable, and I graduated with a 3.7 GPA. I'm not a genius, I certainly did my fair share of procrastination, it was mostly just about making almost every day a "work day" (at least for a few hours), keeping things interesting by alternating between different types of work, and finding creative times/ways to study (commuting, lunch break, doing class busywork watching TV in the evening, etc) I don't think I would have gotten "more" out of the program by quitting my job and just doing that full time. If anything, the financial stress would have made things more difficult.
Mz 9y ago
FYI: http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com

austenallred 9y ago

> But why didn't she just go to the public library? An internet cafe? She isn't close to one. And I don't know of many libraries that are cool with you videoconferencing with instructors and pair programming 8 hrs/day.

brandall10 9y ago
Interesting you say that. I happen to live 5 blocks from the new central library in San Diego. It's huge and very expensive (nearly $200M). It also has what appears to be 100 or so public computers that are pretty much used non-stop by the large homeless population which borders the area to the east of downtown. Look at some of the more negative yelp reviews for it: https://www.yelp.com/biz/san-diego-public-library-san-diego-13?osq=library https://www.yelp.com/biz/san-diego-public-library-san-diego-... Ultimately, there really isn't anything that can be done - you can't kick someone out because they look or smell a certain way if they're using a public utility the way it was meant to be used.
- austenallred 9y ago
  That is interesting. She's in rural Texas, so obviously pretty different, but I didn't know there were libraries like that anywhere.
  - brandall10 9y ago
    I don't think think legally there are libraries not like that anywhere. To be removed, someone has to be committing a crime. In most cases with homeless people that aren't actually committing an obvious crime it's loitering (or solicitation if panhandling). In a library if you're actually reading a book or using a computer you're not loitering any more than anyone else there.
    - austenallred 9y ago
      But we require our students to talk a lot. At least in the libraries I've been to there's an expectation of noise level. That said, I haven't been to very many libraries.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      This is a problem with the design of the system. "Using the computer" just so you can be inside in the air conditioning is definitely not how those resources were intended to be used. The problem is that it's impossible to practically police this behavior individually, but easy to detect in aggregate. If the homeless person just sits around in the library doing nothing, they're loitering, but because they're sitting at a computer eating up a resource, it's not loitering. I certainly don't mean to assume a homeless person wouldn't have a legit reason to use the library computers. That's why I noted the difference between policing an individual is impossible, but seeing the trend in aggregate is easy.
- vkou 9y ago
  Some of those yelp reviews are amazing - I can only assume they are coming from the same group of people that thinks that the homeless should stop being losers and just get a real job.
  - jschwartzi 9y ago
    They're all written by the people who complain about pit toilets in national parks.
- Mz 9y ago
  I used to get kicked out of the San Diego library for smelling bad when I was homeless in San Diego. It was a loose interpretation of some rule about interfering with other people's use of the library. I also know of a library system that literally has a smell rule. It pisses me off because it is basically a Jim Crow law. I have serious allergies and respiratory problems and it can literally make me ill when someone shows up stinking to high heaven of strong perfume. But you can bet the librarians would not have thrown them out had I complained. That "you smell" thing is basically code for "no homeless people." There is no objective smell-o-meter that indicates when someone is actually a threat to public welfare or something. And in settings where people did not know I was homeless, I did not see evidence that I actually smelled bad. They would ask me about my vacation plans while cutting my hair.
- chongli 9y ago
  Ultimately, there really isn't anything that can be done - you can't kick someone out because they look or smell a certain way if they're using a public utility the way it was meant to be used. There's lots that can be done. How about more computers, for a start? If they're monopolizing 100 computers then how about 1000? Install public showers and laundry facilities, too. Add in a volunteer job training center. Run free programming classes and job interview tutorials. Resumé review classes would be great, too.
  - ikeyany 9y ago
    Libraries aren't homeless shelters.
    - chongli 9y ago
      Right. Libraries have the opportunity to help people break the cycle of poverty rather than merely sustain it.
Mz 9y ago
Some libraries are not even open 8 hours a day, every day. In fact, most library systems seem to not be open 7 days a week. Even the ones that are typically have shorter hours at least on some days.

vkou 9y ago

> I'm seeing a huge reluctance for peers (and a reluctance in myself) to bite the bullet, swallow my pride, and take a minimum wage job until I can get better on my feet. How far in the black will a minimum wage job put you month/month? How long will it take to put yourself up on your feet with it?

aphextron 9y ago

>As a member of this demographic I'm seeing a huge reluctance for peers (and a reluctance in myself) to bite the bullet, swallow my pride, and take a minimum wage job until I can get better on my feet Don't do it. Life is all about priorities and keeping your focus. Once you start mixing work and studies, both will suffer. Go hungry, sell plasma, visit a food bank, do what you have to do. But keep your eye on the prize.

s73ver 9y ago
Studies will suffer even more if you're unsure of where your next meal is coming from.
mahyarm 9y ago
Tons of students do part time min wager jobs and do just fine. You learn stuff from working those jobs alone!
erroneousfunk 9y ago
I got my master's in software engineering half time while working full time as a software engineer. During those four years I was also volunteering once a week, had a few side projects going on, wrote a book that made >$50,000 over the last two years, did freelance work, and maintained a relationship (got married two days after I graduated!). There were certainly periods of time where I didn't see friends much, and my husband had to (gasp) cook dinner once in a while, but it was doable, and I graduated with a 3.7 GPA. I'm not a genius, I certainly did my fair share of procrastination, it was mostly just about making almost every day a "work day" (at least for a few hours), keeping things interesting by alternating between different types of work, and finding creative times/ways to study (commuting, lunch break, doing class busywork watching TV in the evening, etc) I don't think I would have gotten "more" out of the program by quitting my job and just doing that full time. If anything, the financial stress would have made things more difficult.

Mz 9y ago

FYI: http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com