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We are somewhat offtopic, but: That sounds a bit like the church in the middle ages saying: "your sins are what is holding society back, that is why you can't h
by captainmuon 9y ago
We are somewhat offtopic, but: That sounds a bit like the church in the middle ages saying: "your sins are what is holding society back, that is why you can't have nice things". Or like many utopians, who wanted to create a "better man". Or their detractors, who said utopia doesn't work because people are flawed.
I don't want to change people, I want to change society.
- AndrewKemendo 9y agoI don't want to change people, I want to change society. Somehow you think those are different things and I'm not sure why. Society only changes when enough people individually change. You can force change through government or coercion, but it's temporary and unsustainable. utopia doesn't work because people are flawed. Right, I'd agree with that.
- captainmuon 9y agoWhat I mean is, I don't want Utopia for some kind of Adornoian "liberated human" or socialist übermensch, I want an Utopia in which I myself can live. Despite my flawed socialisation and biology. I think we can refactor society, instead of reforming or revolutionizing it. Keep the same people, don't coerce them into anything. Don't wait for future technological improvements, but reap the benefits of centuries of previous improvements. We have been technically able to satisfy the needs of everybody from a purely material point of view for decades now. Now we need to fix the allocation of these goods, and the crisis of political representation (or the lack thereof for many people).
- AndrewKemendo 9y agoI personally think that is impossible. It would be like training a rat to sing opera. We don't fundamentally have the hardware that would allow it. We have been technically able to satisfy the needs of everybody from a purely material point of view for decades now. "Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need but not every man's greed" - Gandhi